Looking for a good 39 setup for AAG40 equipment and board

Something along those lines is currently being developed over here:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=38589.0
Simple 1939 setup variant for Global 1940?

It will also be interesting to see how the eventual Europe side of a 1939 setup handles something that’s a marginal on the Pacific side of the Global 1940 map, but is more of a factor on the Europe side of the map: the presence of minor Allied and Axis powers.  A notable difference in WWII between the Allied minors in Europe and the Axis minors in Europe is that the former were knocked out of action almost as soon as they were caught up in the war, whereas the latter stayed in action on the Axis side for several years.  (I was originally going to write “an odd difference”, but in fact there’s nothing odd about the situation: it simply reflects the fact that the Axis pretty much overran most of Europe during the first couple of years of WWII.)  Poland, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Greece and Yugoslavia all became Allied powers when they were invaded, but all were occupied within, I think, an average of a few weeks (with Denmark and Norway representing, if I remember correctly, the two extremities of the distribution curve).  By contrast, Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Finland all functioned for several years as either Axis partners or co-belligerents.

Outside of Europe, this pattern was (mostly but not completely) reversed.  Iraq was quickly overrun by the Allies when it joined the Axis side, and the same thing happened to Persia/Iran when the British and the Russians started to get nervous about where its sympathies were.  A whole string of minor powers joined the Allies outside of Europe, and remained on the Allied side until the end of the war, but most of them had no actual combat role in the war.  The two non-European territories fitting the European pattern described above were Siam/Thailand (a Japanese co-belligerent for most of the war) and Holland’s colonial territory of the Dutch East Indies (which fell to Japan in fairly short order).

Europe will be complicated to make, interesting to play, and deadly.  I plan to make a lot of fighting going on.  The one interesting point no one has pointed out is Italy.  My plan is that they can attacks turn one, but it will not totally optimal.  It will be more of a risky thing that depends on the UK’s moves. Turn two I will let Allies declare war on Italy. If they don’t, and Italy won’t, we may get some interesting late turn (3-4?) declarations of war by Italy.  I do want to make I2 the ideal time though.  Only totally special rule will be the new Neutral: the anti/pro Russian neutral.  First Europe version will be out by next week or earlier.

Yes Italy could be tricky starting out as a neutral power, but I think you have to limit them from going fully to war until the Germans attack France and/or UK (which would probably be turn 2). You need to allow them to annex Albania in the first turn though (April 1939), but don’t want them fully in the war until the second turn when they can DOW on the French and Brits on their own terms (after the Germans attack France/UK). If the Italians don’t DOW on round 2, the Brits can DOW on Italy turn 3 (pre-empt strike because Paris was attacked). Might even consider changing the Italians in the turn order to go right after Germany so they can DOW turn 2 before UK (and if they didn’t DOW allow UK to DOW the Italians). The Italians going right after Germany (as the Euro axis), wouldn’t be much different then the UK going right after the USA (as the western allies).

This also brings up what the Russians can do as a neutral power (they need to be able to make limited attacks). In the first turn (Sep/Nov 1939) they should invade Poland and part of Finland (Vyborg only). Then there is the Soviet-Japanese war in the summer of 1939 (not sure how you handled that on the Pac side, maybe allow for some border clashes before the NAP is signed and the whole Mongolia rule comes into place). Turn 2 (June 1940 around the time Germany invades France) the Russians need to annex Baltic States and Bessarabia. but shouldn’t be allowed to go any further until at war w/Euro axis. Maybe turn 3 (Sept 1941) Russia is allowed to invade NW Persia?

The time line for the Germans is going to be difficult regardless of how you handle things. Germany should start out with only 3 territories. W Germany, Southern Germany (includes Austria annex 1938), and Germany (includes Sudetenland annex 1938).

Territories like Finland, Slov/Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria are pro axis, but it will take a couple turns for them to get to Romania and Bulgaria to activate (which kinda fits the actual time line of 1940/1941)

Need to re-work the neutrals a bit so the Germans can attack what would be true neutral counties like Denmark and Norway. Maybe have a list of neutrals that can be attacked? Maybe even give an NO incentive to keep them from attacking territories like Sweden or Switz because it is more lucrative to leave them be? Although the Germans had invasion plans for both, they still benefited from them staying neutral as well w/o the hassles or resources needed to invade and garrison them.

IMO you don’t want to put restrictions on what territories the Germans can attack on the first turn, but you probably want to discourage them from attacking certain territories or Powers. Like you could have a Maginot Line in place so the Germans could have the option of attacking France on the first turn, but it will be devastating to do so (something like all French and English units def +1 when attacking France from W Germany). You want them to go through Holland/Belgium where they will face less resistance, and attack France on Turn 2. In light of this to show the allies were really not prepared for this plan you could rule in that the French and Brit units def-1 when attacked from Hol/Belg. This might help because maybe once the Germans take Hol/Belg the allies will try to pull some units out of Normandy/France instead of reinforcing them. Plus you kind a need the Dutch to fall to make the whole UK/Anz work in the Pac w/DEI.

What will the French buy on the first turn with their 19 IPCs, they could make it hard.

UK sent the BEF to France at the French/Belgium border in 1939, so they should be represented when the game starts (Normandy and France). Will the Germans be allowed to attack the Brits and/or French on the first turn?  (maybe but should be an incentive not to).

The political situation is kinda interesting, and you could follow history a bit and invoke a Phony War Rule as an incentive for Germany to not attack the UK/France directly on the first turn. If the Germans invaded Poland, Norway, Hol/Bel etc……, but don’t directly attack the French or UK this will provoke a Phony War. The French and UK will DOW on Germany on their respective turns, but aren’t allowed to  perform attacks against the Germans that turn (Phony War). They would be able to reinforce France, or pull some troops out (should limit how many transports they have in range). They will both surly move their navy out of harms way though so the Germans cant’ hit it on the second turn.

@WILD:

The political situation is kinda interesting, and you could follow history a bit and invoke a Phony War Rule as an incentive for Germany to not attack the UK/France directly on the first turn. If the Germans invaded Poland, Norway, Hol/Bel etc……, but don’t directly attack the French or UK this will provoke a Phony War. The French and UK will DOW on Germany on their respective turns, but aren’t allowed to  perform attacks against the Germans that turn (Phony War). They would be able to reinforce France, or pull some troops out (should limit how many transports they have in range). They will both surly move their navy out of harms way though so the Germans cant’ hit it on the second turn.

I agree that on land and in the air the British and the French didn’t do much to the Germans during the Phony War (nor did the Germans do much to the British and the French), but at sea things were very different.  The British and the French pretty much swept the sea clear of any German commercial shipping, while the Germans immediately started to attack British and French shipping with submarines and surface raiders (including a couple of pocket battleships).

I should say that no special rules will be added unless necessary for gameplay.  This means France will be "normal, " Denmark and Norway will simply be pro-allied, and Germany will go first but have very little in Western Germany but a lot of stuff in the East as well as The Baltic Sea (out of range of most Allies).  I will have one necessary rule that allows Russia to attack Vyborg (will be Pro-Axis if they don’t) and Poland (will be pro-allied if they don’t) and simply claim Bessarbia and Baltic States.

Italy will simply have a well -thought setup and they can declare war turn 1 or 2 and if they don’t UK can attack turn 2 or 3.

Allies will get much more Navy than Germany but their land armies will be smaller (especially Britain).

I can’t wait!

@Charles:

I should say that no special rules will be added unless necessary for gameplay.  This means France will be "normal, " Denmark and Norway will simply be pro-allied, and Germany will go first but have very little in Western Germany but a lot of stuff in the East as well as The Baltic Sea (out of range of most Allies).  I will have one necessary rule that allows Russia to attack Vyborg (will be Pro-Axis if they don’t) and Poland (will be pro-allied if they don’t) and simply claim Bessarbia and Baltic States.

Italy will simply have a well -thought setup and they can declare war turn 1 or 2 and if they don’t UK can attack turn 2 or 3.

Allies will get much more Navy than Germany but their land armies will be smaller (especially Britain).

I can’t wait!

I understand your reluctance to special rules, and making Poland, Hol/Belg, Denmark and Norway (plus Yugo, and Greece) pro allies is a good fix that will allow the Germans to invade them w/o changing the rules for neutrals. Finland, Slov/Hungary, Romania, (and Bulgaria) being co-belligerents are in the pro axis camp, and the Germans (or Italians) can activate them oob in NCM in a couple turns. Also if the Italians start early are they allowed to activate what would normally be an original German territory (I would think not).

Just to point out you need to amend the German NO for holding Denmark and Norway so the Germans can get that NO G1 w/o being at war w/UK. I’m assuming that Germany don’t have to DOW on France/UK to invade these territories, but it would provoke the UK and France to DOW on their turn.

Just wondering if you are you planning on Germany starting with only the 3 German territories  (Germany, W Germany, and S Germany) and the rest pro axis or pro allies that they will take in the first couple turns. I’m just thinking their starting cash of 14 IPCs would be pretty low so their first buy wouldn’t help them a whole lot when invading France G2. Actually the French will have more starting income and out spend Germany on the first turn, so getting the set-up right will take some doing.

I like your plan of having just enough units in the west to take Denmark and Holland (not enough to invade France), but it might be a problem holding them. I think you will need to attack these pro allied territories so the allies can’t activate them claiming the units you start them off with (and the income) and set up def by adding to them, but a counter attack is likely unless you really under inflate the French.

With the bulk of the German forces in Germany at the Polish border some will attack Poland, some load tpts to invade Scandinavia (tpts in sz114) and the rest simply NCM into position for the assault on Paris. (I would think that including an attack on Yugo G1 would leave them too light in their other main battles so Yugo would be left for G2).  Any purchases will be placed in West Germany for G2, but Germany won’t have much starting income.

Can’t wait too see this, it should be very intriguing.

I have decide that Italy may only attack starting turn two so they couldn’t move into neutrals of any types I1. This means the only pro-axis they should get is maybe Bulgaria which I don’t mind since it did play a very different role than Romanian and Hungary.

The start date here is Spetember 3 or later.  So Germany is already at war with Uk, France, and ANZAC.

yes Germany only gets the three territories that say Germany.  To compensate for the the IPCs loss Germany is going to get a great heap of units in the East to invade France which won’t have so much.

Germany will be able take Holland and Denmark and Norway and Poland and Hungary turn one but I don’t want them in Finland so I decided to make the UK be able to go for Norway plus they will lose their NO for Sweden so the Germans shouldn’t head for Finalnd.

First setup will be complete on Saturday and I’ll give it to you guys by Monday the latest.

Europe 1939 is out!

It has been out since Saturday! :-o check here http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=38589.0

Once the setups are perfected, I will make a Global version on a new topic.  I am definitely going to change Europe 1939 a little bit, but I want to finish my current game first to get a good impression.

I would love to have you test it! Once I get a good Global I will give it to you, but I can’t send a PDf as I am working on a tablet notepad software and simply copying it here.