Submarine Questino

Thanks for posting this here. Discord is miserable for actually maintaining/archiving information to the point where I have no idea how it’s become top dog over the years.

@Simon98v:

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If I interpreted this correctly, a seazone containing both submarines AND transports blocks the movement of sea units. This doesn�t make any sense.

Do submarines have the ability to protect allied transports? (obviously not from air units)

Can you ignore making an attack on a seazone containing transports and submarines to make a seashore bombardment?

Don’t forget:

@rulebook:

An enemy submarine and/or transport does not block any of your units’ movement, nor does it prevent loading or offloading
in that sea zone (with one exception - see Special Combat Movement: Transports, pg. 13). As the moving player, you have the
option of attacking an enemy submarine and/or transport that shares a sea zone with you. However, if a warship chooses to sink
an unescorted transport, that warship must end its movement in that sea zone. It is possible that some units may stop to attack
while others continue moving through the sea zone.

This should answer all your questions.

Welcome to the forum c82rcn and congrats on you perseverance with the rule book!

Exactly…  Each round of combat occurs at the same time.  So, surprise strikes happen on the same turn.  Attacking/Defending rolls are a single turn.  Surprise attack/defend are simultaneous.  Unless there is a destroyer present which negates the surprise for the opposite side.  Note that the destroyer must be on the attacking side to make a difference.  A defending destroyer can be any allied ownership.  The defender gets the benefit of the doubt in this situation.  As the rules state for attackers, only those units owned by the attacker participate in the battle however all defending units participate regardless of ownership unless explicitly stated and this only applies to submarines that can submerge.

It’s important to note that while the sub movement rules allow them to treat hostile sea zones as though they were friendly, this doesn’t exempt subs from any of the other rules for movement.  In all other respects, they move in the exact same way as any other sea unit.

Please see

@Rulebook:

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Attacking or defending submarines that choose to submerge are immediately removed from the battle strip and returned to the
game board in the contested sea zone, removing them from the remaining battle sequences.

Note: Decisions on whether attacking and defending submarines will fire or submerge must be made before any dice are rolled
by either side. The attacking player decides first.
…

and

@Rulebook:

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Once all attacking and defending submarines that conducted a Surprise Strike have fired, the casualties they have generated
are removed from the game and this step is over for this round of combat. As long as there are attacking and/or defending
submarines and no opposing destroyers, this step is repeated during each round of combat. Any hits made during this step that
do not destroy units (such as battleships) remain in effect until the end of the combat.
…

Please ask if anything remains unclear.

@Swift:

So a sub can suprise strike, submerge, then other sea units fire, then defending units fire (excluding submarines), then remove casualties, then press attack, then same sub suprise strikes and submerges, then attacking sea units fire… and so on until defeat or retreat of attacker?

No, a sub can either surprise strike or submerge. If it submerges it will be out for the rest of the battle.
If it decides to surprise strike in the first round of combat and survives this round of combat, it can decide
to submerge or to attack again in the next round of combat.

HTH :-)

On any combat round, when there is no destroyer, each Sub get a surprise strike.

Assuming conditions are met for a Surprise Strike:
On any hit by Sub, remove immediatly an opponent unit without retaliation (except for enemy’s Sub which can roll in the same phase when their is no Destroyer on the opposing side).
All the surviving units can roll to hit the Subs, except for planes (which cannot hit when there is no Destroyer, neither can be hit by Subs).

In your example, if the Sub miss, then Cruiser can roll. If it gets a hit, then the battle is over.
If neither Sub or Cruiser get a hit, Sub can have another surprise roll if it stay for another combat round.

If Sub roll and has a hit, then the Cruiser cannot roll.
If Sub miss, Cruiser can roll.
Getting a hit then Sub is sunk, it is over.
Still a miss, it goes for another combat round if the attacker doesn’t retreat or the Sub doesn’t submerge.

And it start all over again…

A sub can choose to attack an enemy sub yes, but……

The enemy sub can choose to:

Submerge thus ending the combat and living to fight another day or… Fight, both subs get a first shot I believe and could destroy each other.  Perhaps the sub is performing convoy escort duty for transports and decided to fight to protect the transports.

Of course the presence of destroyers on either side will modify this sequence.