Russian troops in the middle east/africa

Russia needs the income, so at least Central Persia and Iraq.

I would do it if Germany did a G1 Barbarossa. Otherwise on Turn1 UK is always half way there in my experience.

I agree that it’s too late and it’s not as needed in a G3/G4 Barbarossa.

But it’s great in a G2 invasion -

If on R1 you can see a G2 attack coming, which you should, you move 1 Mech, 1 Arm from Volgograd to Turkmenistan.
1 Mech, 1 Arm from Moscow goes to Rostov.  Leaving the 2 infantry in Caucasus is optional.
UK1 the infantry from West India takes East Persia.

On R2, when you’re at war, move the mobile units from Turkmenistan to Central Persia, taking those infantry and move any units in range of North Persia into it.  You’re set up perfectly for taking Iraq on R3.

I see. Annoying having to creep that Brit Inf back to India though! I also hope that the 2nd Edition rules will remove Russian Political NO from Asia and Africa, as it is too much in my opinion.

Agreed.  It’s an exploit that really shouldn’t be in the game.

The problem with the Soviet NO is that it motivates Russia to go on a silly African road trip.  At the Harris site, Wild Bill suggested a good house rule solution to the Soviet NO.  Instead of $3 per originally axis/pro-axis territory, Russia simply gets double the IPC value of any originally Germany, Italian, pro-axis or pro-allied territory.  That gives Russia a good income bump from the middle east and a windfall after sealion, but little motivation to go down past Egypt.

How I see it the russian NO is very important for balance issues, if its just removed killing Russia will become even easier than it already is.

Mabye balanced would be ok if Britain gets back this old NO…

Collect 5 IPCs per turn if there are no German submarines on the Europe map with the following exceptions: The Baltic Sea (113 -114 -115). The Black Sea (100) and of course the Caspian Sea. Theme: Being an island nation the UK gains a strategic advantage with low German submarine activities directed against its merchant fleet.

I always play as the Axis, but thought that a very good NO. The U-Boat scare and threat was very credible. Meant had to keep buying a Sub a turn and that equated to 2  lost Inf for Russian Front.

But the soviet NO was made specifically to bump USSR’s income after sealion.

I don’t see the advantage for Moscow diverting units into Iraq.

By R3, Moscow is probably down 4 IPC worth of territories, possibly 5 and it could be more if you empty Leningrad instead of defending it.

At the earliest, that is when Moscow could snag Iraq and you net 5 IPC of income, but you sacrifice the defense of 3-4 potential starting units to break even and you cannot replace those units with the income by the time Germany arrives at Moscow.

Moscow can still put down 10 Inf a turn basically right up until Germany arrives at Moscow (not counting any SBR that could hamper that).

If anything, I prefer staging 6-8 Inf with 1 Art in Karelia and as soon as Germany attacks, send them after Finland with your aircraft for support.  Not only do you remove Germany infantry that would be fodder for hitting Moscow, but you also gain the same amount of IPC.

Further, if you win in Finland, Norway is yours for the taking and that denies Germany a NO and gives you another 6 IPC.  THAT is the move thats worth sacrificing units that would defend Moscow, not Iraq.

My move:  R2 = + 5 IPC, R3 = +5 IPC (Finland) +6 IPC (Norway)  Total to spend on R4 = + 16 IPC
Bonus = 6-9 less Inf units for Germany, NO is denied

Iraq move: R2 = 0 IPC (Staging), R3 = +5 IPC (Iraq) Total to spend R4 = 5 IPC
Negative = 3-4 Units wandering the deserts of the Middle East.

Not quite.

Iraq - 5 IPCs
Persia - 2 IPCs
Ethiopia - 4 IPCs
Somaliland - 3 IPCs
Libya - 4 IPCs
Tobruk - 3 IPCs

That adds up fast and is more than worth the units you send to get it.  It’s also damn near impossible to take back, unlike Scandinavia.

Also, if you send a bunch of guys up to Karelia, Germany will either take a step back to Norway and kill anything you put in Finland, or stack Finland with a bunch of planes.  Either way, with good German play, you won’t be destroying all thsoe infantry.  And who knows how much Germany would have transported into Scandinavia in the turns before this move.

what I do is fly a bunch of RAF and usa bombers into russia to cover him till he collects the africa NO.  Good stuff. :)

@Alsch91:

Not quite.

Iraq - 5 IPCs
Persia - 2 IPCs
Ethiopia - 4 IPCs
Somaliland - 3 IPCs
Libya - 4 IPCs
Tobruk - 3 IPCs

That adds up fast and is more than worth the units you send to get it.� It’s also damn near impossible to take back, unlike Scandinavia.

Also, if you send a bunch of guys up to Karelia, Germany will either take a step back to Norway and kill anything you put in Finland, or stack Finland with a bunch of planes.� Either way, with good German play, you won’t be destroying all thsoe infantry.� And who knows how much Germany would have transported into Scandinavia in the turns before this move.

How soon are you expecting to get those last 4 in your list?  Surely you don’t expect to get them before Germany arrives at Moscow?

I can see R3 collecting up to 7 IPC and I will give you that those territories are hard to claim for the Axis until Moscow falls.

With a G2 DOW I’d expect to see Germany on my doorstep to make its move on G6 (G2 EPoland, G3 Baltic, G4 Belarus, G5 Smolensk, G6 Moscow - with single units along the way taking connecting territories).

Assuming the Italians are removed from Africa I believe the earliest you can get into Eth/Tob is R5 meaning R6 you can spend it before Germany attacks Moscow, but the funny thing with it is that by the time that happens, you probably only have 2 IC’s to place units at for a total of 13 units.

Now granted you might be able to trade in 2-3 extra tanks instead of Inf on Moscow, but didn’t you just end up replacing the ones you sent into the desert by doing that?  Particularly if you sent 2 Arm, 2 Mech 2 Inf to replace from your starting units.

Now if Germany fails in Moscow… thats a different story as those IPC become very valuable - but if you turn Germany at Moscow you’ve basically won Europe anyways.  The extra IPC just speeds up the game at this point.

Now if Germany takes a step back to Norway, that is all fine by me.  I’ll happily trade my Inf to prevent 6-9 Fodder from arriving at Moscow the same time the Armor/Mech does, especially if its basically even odds.  That means I’m digging into the Mech fodder earlier when Moscow is attacked.

As for the Aircraft issue, who’s to say Russia needs to move its whole stack into Finland if Germany backs off?  A single Inf moving in nets Moscow 5 IPC to collect.  Even if the Inf is lost on the following turn, Russia is +2 for the trade not counting the fact the stack of German Inf is not stepping into my territories and won’t be able to arrive in Moscow the same time the big stack does.  Granted Germany can still leave 1 Inf behind, but mission accomplished, all those units are not arriving in time:

Look at it this way:  Germany steps back into Norway on G2 puts a successful march timeline of those Inf as following:

G3 Finland, G4 Karelia, G5 Leningrad, G6 Archangel, G7 Smolensk, G8 Moscow

With the bulk of the German army arriving at Moscow on G6, I’ve bought myself either less Inf attacking Moscow or more time for the Allies to harass Germany in France if Germany waits for them to catch up.

In the end, yes there is more money to be made in Africa for Russia.  But timing wise, the benefit seems a break-even for Russia to do so.

allies usually get stuff into russia by then… the whole africa russia strat requires lots of uk air and usa bombers to fly in.

Yeah Spendo, you’re making an assumption I find a bit strange-
Germany won’t be taking Moscow on G6, as long as Russia and the Allies know what they’re doing.  If that were consistently possible, the game would be broken.

Actually G6 takedown of russia is consistently possible, that is if you industrial bomb with 6 japan bombers. on that sucker.

Well alright, yeah, if you want to game it that badly.  :lol:

Then again there’s a good chance you’ll have 80% of America’s income coming through the Atlantic in  that case.

Just wondering, when does japan start this SBR campaign on Moscow?  Where do these bombers take off from and where do they land?  and when do you build them?