Any good house rules for convoy raiding?

[Der Kuenstler]

I'm unsatisfied with the different convoy rules I've read so far. I'm hoping for:

1) Uncomplicated - preferably mirroring strategic bombing somehow so as not to have to learn another system.
2) Variable results as with strategic bombing - (the rule saying all subs cause 2 economic damage and all surface ships cost 1 leaves the exact same results every time - unrealistic.)
3) A cap on damage which is historically different for each nation. (you're not going to hurt Russia as much as Britain with convoy raids.)

Anybody have any house rules like this?
   

 

[crusaderiv]

I have a good one..but you want a house rules with those 3 points?
You should make ity by yourself..

[Clyde85]

why fix what aint broke?

Surface ships can blockade for 1 point of IPC , while Subs can raid for 2, seems pretty simple to me.

what you could do is keep surface ships the same, they do one point of IPC damage per ship, though perhaps make it so they have to have atleast one of each surface ship (Battleship, Cruiser, Destroyer) to do so. Represents actually setting up a task force to blockade someone, and it would do 3 points of damage.

For subs you could keep it the same, but make it that German subs do 3 points of damage, to represent the wolf packs of WW2. Another thought would be allow subs to do convoy raids like SBR, but allow German subs to roll a D6 for damage while other nations roll D3. Of course you'd then have to change the cost accordingly and that would make it more complicated.

[Der Kuenstler]

why fix what aint broke?

Surface ships can blockade for 1 point of IPC , while Subs can raid for 2, seems pretty simple to me.

It is simple but too predictable and formulaic. There is no variation in damage. Did the sub commanders historically say "well there are two of us here so we are going to sink exactly 4 points worth of ships tonight, and every night we are here."

To me the old strategic bombing rules were very simple and elegant. Odds were for every $12 bomber you lost, you could do about $17.5 in damage. It was self-regulating because no one was able or willing to buy and lose enough bombers to bankrupt the enemy country, with other concerns to spend on. I'd like to see some simple convoy rules that mirror that. 

Now in convoy raiding you have to think about what countries you are next to and their economic value, what surface ships are with you, blah blah blah - too complicated = not fun! 

[Tigerman77]

How about keeping transports in the convoy zones? If there are nO transports in a convoy zone then you lose x amount of points. For every transport in a convoy zone you get x amount of points. A capnon the points of course. Turn the convoy zones into actual battles with lend lease money!!!  There are all spets of ideas that can be used.

[The auk]

You could keep the system the same but just apply some variability to it.  For example, for each surface ship, roll a d6: 1-2 = 0pp damage, 3-4 = 1PP damage, 5-6 = 2PP damage

For subs - 1-2 = 1PP damage, 3-4 = 2PP damage, 5-6 = 3PP damage.

Economic damage should average out the same as it is now, but you would introduce a little more variability into the results every turn.  You could also devise some modifiers for technology or national advantages, like German u-boats get a +1; or once the Allies have centimetric radar or something, Axis subs receive a -1 modifier, etc. . .

[Gargantua]

Are none of you guys playing with the current rules?


for each suface ship roll 1d6, for each sub or fighter roll 2d6, (Aircraft Carriers don't roll dice)

if you roll 1, 2, or 3,  do 1, 2, or 3 damage.   if you roll 4, 5, or 6,  you do none.

[MacNaughton]

Are none of you guys playing with the current rules?


for each suface ship roll 1d6, for each sub or fighter roll 2d6, (Aircraft Carriers don't roll dice)

if you roll 1, 2, or 3,  do 1, 2, or 3 damage.   if you roll 4, 5, or 6,  you do none.

I love it when the actual rules are better than any suggested house rules.

[Gamerman01]

3) A cap on damage which is historically different for each nation. (you're not going to hurt Russia as much as Britain with convoy raids.)

Yeah, this is already in place.  NONE of Russia's original territories are subject to convoy disruption.  Britain and Japan have the most...  Cap of IPC value by territory helps self-regulate this...  You could potentially stop all 8 IPC's of the UK home islands, but all North Europe territories but Norway are immune....  seems like a good system to me.

Did the sub commanders historically say "well there are two of us here so we are going to sink exactly 4 points worth of ships tonight, and every night we are here."

Very little in A&A makes any sense if you look at it with this kind of reasoning.

[Der Kuenstler]

OK here's what I'm going to try next game. Before you turn your noses up, keep in mind I am using a Spring 1942 map that has no convoy zones marked on it, and I am using mostly the original strategic bombing rules.

I purchased some special D3 dice that are marked 1-3 twice. (picture attached) These will be my "economic damage" dice.

1) Subs must be within three zones of an enemy factory to conduct a convoy raid.
2) These convoys are assumed to have built in ASW protection. Defender rolls one die for each attacking submarine - remove a sub for every "1" rolled.
3) Roll one D3 die for every remaining sub and add - the result is how much economic damage is done by the convoy raid.
4) 0ther surface vessels and planes do not do convoy attacks. IMO they make subs redundant and add more confusion. (all classes of ships and planes doing the one die roll damage?)  I know surface raiding happened in the war, but Hitler recalled his surface raiders later because of their relative ineffectiveness. Axis and Allies, because of its scale, paints with a wide brush - so for the sake of simplicity I'm going to try making subs the convoy attack specialists.   

For strategic bombing, do exactly the same thing except roll 2 D3 die per bomber.
With this system, the odds will play out like this:

Every six convoy attacks, you will lose an average of one 6 IPC sub for every 10 IPC damage done. Every six bombing runs, you will lose an average of one 12 IPC bomber for every 20 IPC damage done - exactly double the investment and double the return. The limiting factor of economic damage possible is not the economic value of adjacent territories, but rather the losses you are willing to take in subs and planes to hurt the enemy. 


This system is:
1) Uncomplicated. Planes and subs work the same. No bookwork adding up economic values of territories, etc.
2) Variable results every time, plus the risk of losing your sub(s)
3) Russia has fewer ICs within range than other nations so will suffer less convoy damage.       

[Gargantua]

1) Subs must be within three zones of an enemy factory to conduct a convoy raid.

No offense,

But german subs doing convoy damage to the British, whilst stationed in the Baltic, fits the in the category of EXTREMELY LAME in my opinion.

Same thing as Italy, and Japan.

SUbs stationed at Gibraltar, Egypt, or Hawaii, convoy raid their capitals.

Ghey.

[Der Kuenstler]

Right - but using the latest rules for straights - you can make a rule "subs cannot conduct convoy raids while inside protected straits" - so the subs would have to come out to make the raid and remain in that zone for the rest of the turn.