Rule clarification: Subs/Transports/Aircraft Carriers

[MacNaughton]

I'm pretty sure I've seen this handled before, but can't remember the answer. There are two situations I'm looking to be clarified.

1) There is a Japanese aircraft carrier with 2 fighters and transports off the coast of Japanese controlled Hawaii. USA attacks with submarines and loaded transports to naval invade Hawaii. Once the Japanese aircraft carrier is destroyed, what happens? Do the planes immediately land on Hawaii and then take part in defending the naval invasion? Or do they continue to fly in the air and crash in the water if USA successfully liberates Hawaii? Or does the presence of the fighters keep the USA transports from landing at all since the Allied subs can't destroy them?

2) There are USA subs and transports off the coast of Allied occupied Hawaii. Japan attacks with subs and loaded transports. If the USA subs submerge, are the USA transports automatically destroyed and can Japan invade Hawaii?

[Uncrustable]

I'm pretty sure I've seen this handled before, but can't remember the answer. There are two situations I'm looking to be clarified.

1) There is a Japanese aircraft carrier with 2 fighters and transports off the coast of Japanese controlled Hawaii. USA attacks with submarines and loaded transports to naval invade Hawaii. Once the Japanese aircraft carrier is destroyed, what happens? Do the planes immediately land on Hawaii and then take part in defending the naval invasion? Or do they continue to fly in the air and crash in the water if USA successfully liberates Hawaii? Or does the presence of the fighters keep the USA transports from landing at all since the Allied subs can't destroy them?

2) There are USA subs and transports off the coast of Allied occupied Hawaii. Japan attacks with subs and loaded transports. If the USA subs submerge, are the USA transports automatically destroyed and can Japan invade Hawaii?

1) USA transports die, Japan fighters land on an adjacent allied controlled territory (or die). in this case they land on hawaii
        You gotta clear the sea zone first for amphibious assault (or lose the transports) and since submarines cant kill air units you need something else to aid in escorting the transports (air units of your own or surface warships)

This also is true if he has fighters on the island and an airbase, he can scramble into the seazone and defend against any invading ships (escorts) and kill your transports if he kills your escorts or if you dont have escorts (or if you only have subs) then his planes kill your transports before they unload

2) Japan attacking USA so yes the USA transports die to Japans submarines, yes Japan can then conduct amphibious assault because Japans transports are escorted and USA submarines have declined to defend. (lets say USA subs dont submerge...then a battle ensues between USA subs and japans. If USA subs win then Japan loses their transports before they unload, if it is a tie or Japan wins then Japans transports can unload)

Hope this helps

[MacNaughton]

Great, thanks.

[Krieghund]

1) The US cannot win this battle.  The fighters will continue to defend in the air until the battle is over.  The Japanese fighters and US subs can't hit each other, so the fighters will sink transports until the US retreats.  If the US wishes to conduct this amphibious assault, it must bring units that are capable of hitting the fighters.

2) First, Japan has the option to ignore the US defenders, since they are all transports and subs.  If it takes this option, the US sea units will remain and the amphibious assault will go forward.  If Japan chooses to attack and the US chooses to submerge, the US transports will all die and the amphibious assault will go forward.  If Japan chooses to attack and the US chooses to fight, the outcome of the battle will decide the fate of the transports.

If the battle ends with Japanese subs surviving, the US transports will all die and the amphibious assault will go forward.  If all of the Japanese subs are sunk and there are still (unsubmerged) US subs surviving, Japan must retreat any transports that survive at the end of the combat round or lose them (if retreat is impossible for some reason, the remaining Japanese transports die), and the amphibious assault will not go forward.  If both sides lose all their subs in the same combat round, any transports on both sides that remain survive, and Japan has the option to either go forward with the amphibious assault or retreat.

[Spendo02]

1) The US cannot win this battle.  The fighters will continue to defend in the air until the battle is over.  The Japanese fighters and US subs can't hit each other, so the fighters will sink transports until the US retreats.  If the US wishes to conduct this amphibious assault, it must bring units that are capable of hitting the fighters.

This is one of those unique situations where you are required to take Trn as losses before subs because that is all the unit can hit?

[kcdzim]

1) The US cannot win this battle.  The fighters will continue to defend in the air until the battle is over.  The Japanese fighters and US subs can't hit each other, so the fighters will sink transports until the US retreats.  If the US wishes to conduct this amphibious assault, it must bring units that are capable of hitting the fighters.

This is one of those unique situations where you are required to take Trn as losses before subs because that is all the unit can hit?

Yes.  They just need to be the only legal selection for a loss.  That might mean that planes have no other target (like this example), or that Sub hits have no other ship targets, or that the defenders hit everything else in a round of combat and need to assign some more hits before the defender retreats.  Remember, the defender still has the option to retreat, if they can, and transports are only automatically destroyed when they're attacked, not when attacking (unless the attacker has no place to retreat).