Historical Board Gaming - New Roundels

@general-6-stars I have a physical map that I have made. It’s mostly rules i am trying to develop. Thanks for showing me your map.

This sounds incredibly interesting to me. I am all about flexibility in games as it keeps you interested in them. That is what I am attempting with my Global variant map and house rules with it. Except I am only doing WWII as it is what I have available, and due to limited funds and limited experience I am not willing to undertake something like this on my own… yet. But this sounds incredibly interesting. If there is anything I can do to help out let me know. Assuming this goes beyond an idea

@Baron:

Hi Jinx,
you seems to have played many times with this air combat phase which preceed regular combat.
Can you share what was the exact cost and combat values of planes in both dogfight and regular combat?
I’m looking for a balanced and working air combat system in my A&A games and such experience is valuable.
I found that special targeting rule for Fg and Tactical bomber seems to work inside regular combat but I have to lower combat values and cost to make it functionnal and must have a three planes Carrier to keep them with a similar offense/defense ratio compared to other warships and OOB loaded Carrier.

@Baron:

Hi Jinx,
you seems to have played many times with this air combat phase which preceed regular combat.
Can you share what was the exact cost and combat values of planes in both dogfight and regular combat?
I’m looking for a balanced and working air combat system in my A&A games and such experience is valuable.
I found that special targeting rule for Fg and Tactical bomber seems to work inside regular combat but I have to lower combat values and cost to make it functionnal and must have a three planes Carrier to keep them with a similar offense/defense ratio compared to other warships and OOB loaded Carrier.

Yep, we have played a bit, and its been modified a few times and tweaked with every game. But the latest game we took a few things apart and still need to test them. I may roll out a few battles.
Also, I’m reading the manual for “Struggle for Europe and Asia” and I may tweak things even further! That game has some amazing game designs incorporated.

The latest iteration of this rule is:

Air Attack (AA), Air Defense (AD), Ground Attack (GA), Move (M), Cost ©. On a D12.

Fighters: AA6 AD6 GA2 M4 C6. Carrier Capable.
Tactical Bombers: AA2 AD2 GA6 M4 C8. Target GA at 1-3. Carrier Capable.
Medium Bombers: AA2 AD2 GA6 M5 C8. Strategic Bombing 1D6. Can launch 1 Airborne Infantry.
Strategic Bombers: AA1 AD1 GA(CB) M6 C10. Carpet Bombing 3D@2. Strategic Bombing 2D6.
Transport Plane: AA0 AD0 GA0 M6 C8. Can Transport 1 Unit. Can launch 1 Airborne Infantry.

One change I’m considering, is to weaken the fighters to an AA4 AD4, just so that air units do not get wiped out so quickly in their Air Supremacy battles.

I texted this to a fellow player just now, and he mentioned that I should write up Ground Defense, Air Units Retreat, and ground to air attacks on Air Units.

Well, in the HBG rules, the Air Units (apart from Fighters) had a lower Defense then Offence. Logically this works in regards to Infantry. Infantry units are dug in, they know the terrain, and have some form of obstacles thrown up against an attack. In the case of Armor, it makes sense that they are better offensively then defensively. They can rapidly breakthrough, encircle, and overrun enemy positions. It makes sense.

Air units though…is a different matter I think. Why are they weaker in defense? Bombers would be up in the air chucking bombs and strafing the enemy. The only reason the aircraft would have a weak defense is if the enemy has Air Superiority, which the Pre-Combat Air Battle would incorporate. After that battle, whatever survives the Air Superiority Battle would have attained at least local air superiority and be capable of strafing and bombing the enemy unit at at least full Attack value.

Which leads to my second point. Airplanes cannot dig in, nor do they have terrain features they can utilize. The only benefit they have is the proximity of their own airbases, which would mean quicker refueling, rebombing, and more time repairing. The downside is that the proximity of airbases mean that the enemy could theoretically bomb the Defending Airforce’s airbases.

Therefore, in the current iteration of the rules, the Airforce has the same Air Attack as Air Defense, and the same Ground Attack as Ground Defense.
These rules are constantly evolving though. So who knows.

Second topic. Can ground units (barring Anti-Aircraft-Armament), fire on Aircraft? I’ve tried it both ways. I prefer little to no hits from ground units to air. I like having to build up an Air War as distinct from a Land War or a Naval War. I like having to build a series of AAA to defend a path from India to Burma so that the Japanese Airforce will hesitate to attack my FEC forces.
But, my co-players disagree, and my last game shifted back into allowing Ground Units to attack as normal. I still think I like the idea of giving each unit an AA value, hovering around 2 or 1, to accurately portray that Artillery Cannon, or a Tank would have a hard time hitting Aircraft.

As for Retreating. After one round of combat, both the attacker and then the defender can choose to withdraw their Airforce from the battle, independent of any land battle. In regards to the defending Airforce, the current rules state that they can withdraw only if there is an airbase present. Although I think I will push for allowing a retreat regardless of airbases. I cant see why not.
I’m tinkering with the idea of allowing naval fleets to do the same after a few rounds. The Air and Naval war where quite mobile, and it makes sense that that after a few rounds of combat, those units where capable of retreating did so.

In regards to retreating:
Air Supremacy Round occurs.
Ground Attack, bombing/strafing.
Attacker now has option to retreat his Air Units.
Air Supremacy Round occurs.
Defender now has option to retreat his Air Units to an Adjacent Territory that is not engaged or contested in battle.
Ground Attack, bombing/strafing.

That’s about it, I’ll post as we tweak the rules further.

Well, relative to the tanks, if we were looking for an objective, uniform scale it would be a bit big, I think, but since that isn’t our goal, I think it’s fine.

I’d be fine with the WF colors, too, if they had a complete piece set.

As it is, I still might find several of their models useful for “special unit” upgrades (like how the original AAP used dark green for USMC)

But what I’d really like to see is a cool array of options for ships, especially the marquis ones, the BB’s & CV’s (and even the CA’s).  I’d definitely spend some money on that. I already have… but my Panzerschiffe plastics and 1/3000 metals are still just too big.  I even tried some 1/6000 metals, but they were too small.  If FMG or WF or TT made some of these, I’d be all over that!  You could maybe sell them by the piece; I don’t know if you could make the ROI come together on such a radically different sort of project, but I’d easily spend the same per piece that Panzerschiffe, Navwar, & Skytrex are charging per piece to get models that are much closer to AA scale (and AA colors, though I’d willingly take the time to paint them if necessary)…

Idk, just thinking aloud, here, but maybe this is an opportunity?

Yes,
The Vichy and free French are battling it out.
This global game is pretty massive.
We like playing it though.

Here are my versions of:

Operation: Market Garden

http://axisandallies.metalsaber.com/Market.jpg

Operation: Sealion

http://axisandallies.metalsaber.com/Sealion.jpg

Operation: Downfall

RB
http://axisandallies.metalsaber.com/Downfall.jpg

German Forces:
Unit Type Movement Attack Defense Notes

Tiger Tank 2 9 9 Takes 2 hits, attacks are preemptive  against enemy Tanks first
Panzer tank 3 6 7
Panzer Grenadier
(Mechanized Infantry) 3 4 6
Tank Destroyer 2 7 8 All hits go against enemy armor first
Volks- Grenadier 1 2 4
Fallscirm- Jager (airborne) 1 5 5
Artillery 1 4 4 1  Hex range
Heavy Artillery 1 6 4 2 Hex range
Neberwerfer Rocket 1  + +  +/1 Hex range, each enemy rolls one d6 1=hit, 2-3= unit shocked.
Fighters any 6 8
Jet Fighter any 6x2 10 No interception
Bomber any 8 2 Preemptive attack, ground forces cannot fire back (except Artillery)
Jet Bomber any 6 9 No interception

Allied Forces:
Unit Type Movement Attack Defense Notes

Tank 3 4 3
Mechanized Infantry 2 3 3
Tank Destroyer 3 4 3 All hits go against enemy armor first
Anti -Tank Gun 1 3 2 All hits go against enemy armor first
Airborne 1 2 2
Artillery 1 2 2 1  Hex range
Heavy Artillery 1 4 2 2 Hex range
Fighters any 2 3
Bomber any 3 2 Preemptive attack, ground forces cannot fire back (except Artillery)

all combat is one round duration. all air combat occurs first. if any extra planes are availible they can go against land targets. only artillery can hit planes.

Artillery Guns Anti-Air Defense
Artillery (both regular and heavy Artillery) units may fire at each air unit entering or flying across the air space of its territory during attacking combat movement. Each defending artillery unit rolls against each plane and a result of a 1 on a D12 results in a hit. The maximum number of Artillery units that can roll against planes in this fashion is limited to two. Note: each plane is rolled separately by type and can only be attacked preemptively. Example: 2 Allied Bombers and 2 Fighters attack a hex with German forces including one Artillery unit. The two Bombers are rolled together, yielding results of 3 and 5 (both misses). Next two fighters are rolled with results of 1 and 2 (one hit). One fighter is destroyed with the remaining planes able to perform their combat mission. Remember: each defending Artillery unit has one first shot attack at each air unit. Losses are removed immediately before the air units’ fire back. Attacks by the surviving planes can then proceed in the normal fashion.

I will adjust values for d12 dice. Note: allies not finished.

still need some good supply rules but i need more information on the OOB supply rules. might just use them.

each ammo chit allows one combat action
each fuel drum chit allows one hex of units to move full movement

germany starts with x number of chits in each catagory

allies do not have a limit but some limit on combat actions.

use OOB air power rules but add some rules for jet power say one plane for germany is jet.

also need some optional rocket rules V weapons:

V-2 Rockets
Allow the German player to conduct one V-2 attack per turn. This may be in addition to a similar event from an action card. The attack can be conducted into any Allied hex and each ground unit rolls with 1-2 counted as a hit, 3-4 unit is “suppressed” and cannot move that turn , and 5-6 no effect. The German player has six such attacks per game. Attacks can also be conducted against Allied fuel depots again hitting on a 1-2.

Jet Power
Allow the German player to substitute up to two of his daily air power allocations for one Jet fighter (Me-262) and one Jet Bomber (Ar-234) each turn till the end of the game. They can “save” this allotment until a specific turn and launch the balance of what was withheld until a turn of their choosing. Air Interception missions cannot be performed against Jet planes. They also cannot conduct Paratrooper drops. During aerial combat each Jet Fighter rolls twice against enemy planes. Secondly, allow the Allied player one Jet Fighter (Gloucester Meteor) each turn which performs like any other fighter except it can also avoid all enemy air interceptions.

using jet power may involve using additional air units for allies.

@GeZe:

good,
but i’ll probebly be overloaded with homework till about hmmmmm, grade 12.

ouch…