Krieghund - France and Japan question

[jim010]

If France declares war on Japan first, does Japan still lose the $10 bonus money if Japan takes FIC?

[Cmdr Jennifer]

If France declares war on Japan first, does Japan still lose the $10 bonus money if Japan takes FIC?

Interesting question.  I could see an issue where they would declare war on Japan so that their destroyer can block movement, but yet, America may not yet be at war with Japan...

[knp7765]

I think if Japan takes FIC, that ends the $10 NO period.  It doesn't matter if France declared war on Japan or not.  However, if France declared war on Japan, but Japan did NOT take FIC, then they can still get the $10 NO for peace with USA.  Same thing goes if UK/ANZAC declares war on Japan first.  As long as they are still not at war with USA and haven't taken FIC, they still get the $10.
Japan collects $10 if:
>Japan is not at war with the United States
>Japan has not attacked French Indo-China
>Japan has not made an unprovoked declaration of war against United Kingdom/ANZAC.
So you see, if UK/ANZAC declared war on Japan first, then any declaration of war by Japan would then be considered provoked and the $10 NO with the USA would still be in place.
Theoretically, Japan could collect this NO for more than 3 rounds.  While it is generally regarded as only possible during the first 3 rounds while USA is still neutral, and while it is highly unlikely, the USA could remain neutral past round 3.  The rules say that the United States MAY declare war on any and all Axis Powers during the Collect Income phase of round 3, the US doesn't necessarily have to.  OR, it's also possible that USA only declares war on Germany and Italy.  True, it would be a very weird scenario and almost guarantee an Axis victory, but it is technically possible.  In this case, every round that USA and Japan are not at war with each other, as long as Japan never takes FIC, Japan could continue to collect the $10 NO.

[Young Grasshopper]

Did Krieghund go out for a pack of cigarettes?

[kcdzim]

Did Krieghund go out for a pack of cigarettes?

What knp said is pretty much true.  

As long as Japan doesn't attack FIC, hasn't made an unprovoked attack, and the US is still neutral, the national objective will continue to be collected.  The diplomatic state between France and Japan is largely irrelevant, as is whether france or japan have exchanged naval fire.

[jim010]

Sorry, but I'll wait for krieghund to clarify this. 

I've accepted members interpretations before, only to be shown that they were wrong.

[JimmyHat]

Kcdzim and Gamerman have been deputized.  You can trust them.

[Young Grasshopper]

Kcdzim and Gamerman have been deputized.  You can trust them.

There is nothing wrong with waiting for a response from a specific member.

[Clyde85]

Interesting question.  I could see an issue where they would declare war on Japan so that their destroyer can block movement, but yet, America may not yet be at war with Japan...

What destroyer? The one off of East Africa? Why would you send that to FIC?

[jim010]

To prevent a turn 3 attack on India.

[Alsch91]

Here is a clarification from Krieghund:
http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=5360&p=38669#p38669

After some historical context was given, my current thinking is that at a minimum, if there is an unprovoked French DOW on Japan (so that the French destroyer in the Pacific can be used as a hit), Japan should be able to invade FIC without losing it's NO. Is this even a debatable change to you Krieghund and Larry?

No. The national interests of the US in the Pacific are not affected by the political relations between Japan and France. The US's only concern in that arena is who controls French Indo-China.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

Interesting question.  I could see an issue where they would declare war on Japan so that their destroyer can block movement, but yet, America may not yet be at war with Japan...

What destroyer? The one off of East Africa? Why would you send that to FIC?

As Jim010 said.  To block the Japanese fleet from the British fleet and India.  (This allows England to mass units without having to send their own destroyer to block.)

[special forces]

Interesting question.  I could see an issue where they would declare war on Japan so that their destroyer can block movement, but yet, America may not yet be at war with Japan...

What destroyer? The one off of East Africa? Why would you send that to FIC?

As Jim010 said.  To block the Japanese fleet from the British fleet and India.  (This allows England to mass units without having to send their own destroyer to block.)

One should keep in mind that not every block is a real block, i have made the mistake (more than once) to think to have succesfully blocked the japs to just see my blockers get killed by ships and the "secured" units to be killed off by japanese airforce, which can land on the carriers, moved in the SZ's where the blockers have been killed.

In fact these have always been expensive mistakes...

[jim010]

The idea behind this block is to prevent an amphibious landing in India from sz36.