Sea Lion: Is it worth it?!?!?!

[thatonekid]

Sea Lion: one of two major strategies with germany. it will work if you do it right, but im here to ask you guys if you think its worth it. many times, when i play a sea-lion game, russia is knocking on my backdoor and ROFLstomps me. id like to know what you guys think you can do to avoid this, or if sea-lion is worth it at all.......

btw i already have a quasi-strat for fending off the russki's, i just wanna know what you guys all think.

[Dylan the Canadian]

Russia might be able to push your front back, but with British income you can build a really good force, and then be able to push back on Russia and then once you capture Leningrad, with London you won't need Moscow so then just push to Stalingrad, but remember Moscow is still good to have you could try to invade Washington if the Japanese are messing up and do it your self.

[JimmyHat]

the secret is when you return to the mainland with that force from England, do not build all inf.  Build all tanks or mostly tanks.  I like to buy a ftr/tac with that money too.  This increases your threat potential, Russia still will be unable to take Berlin with all these tanks purchased, and you are now set to push back against the Red Tide.

[GoSanchez6]

I personally think it is worth it. If you roll good and he doesn't Germany can hold England without putting any more units there. With the money you make from England buy infantry and artillery. Use your luftwaffe fully now on Russia. It will take time but if you hold England that is all it is a matter of. Not to mention the NO and the IPC"S you are getting.

[WILD BILL]

In most games we've played that there was a Sea lion, there are normally not to many Germans left if/when they get England (it's normally close). There aren't going to be many Germans returning to the main land IMO, because UK can make it cost you. Plus the US will be looking to take back England, so what ever is left will be needed to def (and probably more) against a liberation party. Your going to need to def both England from the US, and your original tt's from Russia, well before you can go offensive again IMO. Italy will also be needed to nip at Russia, or help def/trade the boarder tt's. Your German Navy & tpts will come in handy to then turn on Russia later through the Baltic, but your normally not using units that just took London. It would be w/units bought w/English plunder. Much depends on how much the US is spending in Europe, and SL can be magnet.

[KillOFzee]

The only time I ever do sea-lion is on G2. I build 2 transports and 2 subs G1, and place them in sz 112. This forces the British player to invest completely in the defence of the UK. If he doesnt, I land and take it. Personally, I dont think it is worth it to spend all your reasources in G2 that could be used against, who must inevitabbly be defeated to win. Good thing is, that the navy from G1 can be used later on againt russia.

[WILD BILL]

I'm not one to plan SL from the beginning and put 12+ tpts in the water at some point. I usually buy 1-2 tpts maybe a dd G1 to see how UK responds. Its more target of opportunity, if I see an opening I'll give it a shot generally using Scotland as a stepping stone. One game I was able to take Scotland w/Italy (yeah they messed up) then bring in German ground & air as reinforcements to then attack England the next turn w/German Scotts, and reloading my 6 tpts from the French coast. Even that attack was costly (damn dice), and I had to retreat back to Scotland (didn't want to cut into my air force), then reload a 2nd time from Normandy to hit them again. Good thing I was also convoying UK, so they couldn't buy much.

The one thing I have learned is if you are even thinking of SL, don't buy an IC for Romania. Been there, done that, wouldn't recommended it  

[Young Grasshopper]

I think it's worth it. 8 extra IPC's (including Scotland) for every round, $28 Capital cash from the UK, and a $5 NO for every round you hold London, but the best reason for successfully attempting sealion is to prevent an allied power from placing units on the board as early as round 2. As for Russia, I like it when they come toward Berlin, better to battle those units close to home rather than trying to chase them all over Russia. I leave Poland and Romania thin so I can entice Russia to attack therefore creating a war of attrition close to my Factories (a war Russia can't win because they are far from home and the money will eventually favor Germany) instead of spreading thin across vast russian ground and leaving territories open. I admit that if Germany does sealion, they won't be able to take the attack to Moscow, but if they play their cards right..... they won't have to.   

[Young Grasshopper]

The one thing I have learned is if you are even thinking of SL, don't buy an IC for Romania. Been there, done that, wouldn't recommended it  

I have bought an IC for Romania at the beginning of G2 (before sealion) and have placed it at the end of G2 (after sealion) and the only way it will work is if Italy sends units to Romania I1 and I2 to reenforce it before Russia enters the war. but recently I have been contemplating building it in Hungary.  

[Alsch91]

building it in Hungary.

Well there's not really a point in doing that.
Hungary is only 1 space from Germany.  Just use that 30 IPCs to build stuff in Berlin and move it to Hungary the next turn.  It takes the same amount of time to get there, and uses 30 less IPCs.

The only reason Romania works is because it's closer to the Ukraine.  Even then it's tough to justify the 30 IPCs.

[Young Grasshopper]

building it in Hungary.

Well there's not really a point in doing that.
Hungary is only 1 space from Germany.  Just use that 30 IPCs to build stuff in Berlin and move it to Hungary the next turn.  It takes the same amount of time to get there, and uses 30 less IPCs.

The only reason Romania works is because it's closer to the Ukraine.  Even then it's tough to justify the 30 IPCs.

Well after SL, Germany will need to flex some mussel south toward Bessarabia because that direction will be bare even if Italy helps. I have also been thinking that 2 Minors (1 in Hungary and 1 in Yugoslavia) might also work when the Russians try to take Poland and Romania. they will also collectively cost less than 1 Major IC and they might be easier to protect.

[JimmyHat]

Another thing to remember, with the mobility afforded Germany by those trns in the Baltic, if Russia lunges hard into Europe you can land at Novgorod and force him to retreat.  If they don't retreat you might get lucky like I did once and cut off their army from Russia.  No more reinforcements for the Reds!   Just remember to keep your northern options open, if Russia is strong in the south flank him in the North to threaten Moscow and force a retreat.

[thatonekid]

and one of the moves ive found comes as a surprise lately is building 1AC, 2 trns like your going to do a SL, then build them in z112 and you can use 3 move(NB) to get to z127  russia ussually leaves this undefended

[Young Grasshopper]

Another thing to remember, with the mobility afforded Germany by those trns in the Baltic, if Russia lunges hard into Europe you can land at Novgorod and force him to retreat.  If they don't retreat you might get lucky like I did once and cut off their army from Russia.  No more reinforcements for the Reds!   Just remember to keep your northern options open, if Russia is strong in the south flank him in the North to threaten Moscow and force a retreat.

Understood, but I fought hard to get Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Greece and I don't want to loose them to a southern push by Russia.

[Alsch91]

Well to keep it in perspective Moscow > Balkan States.