Alpha 2 US DOW and Bonus Income

[Schadenfreude]

Hello All,

Been frequenting this site for a while as an observer in search of rules clarification.  Just registered and looking forward to learning a bit about this awesome game. 

Current question ( maybe a FAQ but couldn't find it specifically) involves the US DOW and bonus income IPC in alpha 2 setup.

This question has never been really answered in my group, so our house rule is that the US gets their 30 Ipc bonus on the collect income of the turn following a DOW by the US.  Example: no-one attacks the US or applicable allies in pacific by the beginning of US turn 3.  Us declares war after their turn 3 non combat phase, but doesn't collect extra Ipc until turn 4 collect income phase.  We figured it would be 1 turn for the US to gear up it's economy as our reasoning and also give the axis 1 more turn to breath a bit.  Seems fairly balanced his way. 


However it seems from reading the forum the us can collect that income immediately on turn 3.  Is this correct?

Also, a series of questions to this thought:

1) G3 sealion is successful.  US immediately can declare war, move their ships out of home waters, and collect 30 more Ipc on turn 3?  If the G3 sealion fails or doesn't occur, the US still declares war turn 3 and collects bonus income turn 3 anyway, the only difference being they cannot attack anyone or move out of their sea zones until turn 4?

2) Japan doesnt attack anyone J3.  US can't attack anyone on US 3, but still collects extra 30 Ipc at the end of US 3 after declaring war US 3 at the end of noncombat phase?

3)G2 sealion is successful or japan attacks someone before Japan turn 3.  US gets bonus income of the turn that that axis attack took place and can attack people before US turn 3?

4) is there any economic benefit as far as the US bonus is concerned for Japan waiting until J4 to attack as opposed to J3?  Can US declare war and attack Japan on US3 if not attacked, or must it wait until US4?same thing for European side, can US attack turn 3 regardless of being attacked or not?

Thanks for any input you all can give me.

[JamesAleman]

Hello All,

Been frequenting this site for a while as an observer in search of rules clarification.  Just registered and looking forward to learning a bit about this awesome game. 

Current question ( maybe a FAQ but couldn't find it specifically) involves the US DOW and bonus income IPC in alpha 2 setup.

This question has never been really answered in my group, so our house rule is that the US gets their 30 Ipc bonus on the collect income of the turn following a DOW by the US.  Example: no-one attacks the US or applicable allies in pacific by the beginning of US turn 3.  Us declares war after their turn 3 non combat phase, but doesn't collect extra Ipc until turn 4 collect income phase.  We figured it would be 1 turn for the US to gear up it's economy as our reasoning and also give the axis 1 more turn to breath a bit.  Seems fairly balanced his way.  False, they get it the turn they declare war. They declare war just prior to collecting income by default on turn 3.


However it seems from reading the forum the us can collect that income immediately on turn 3.  Is this correct?

Also, a series of questions to this thought:

1) G3 sealion is successful.  US immediately can declare war, move their ships out of home waters, and collect 30 more Ipc on turn 3?  If the G3 sealion fails or doesn't occur, the US still declares war turn 3 and collects bonus income turn 3 anyway, the only difference being they cannot attack anyone or move out of their sea zones until turn 4? yes and yes

2) Japan doesnt attack anyone J3.  US can't attack anyone on US 3, but still collects extra 30 Ipc at the end of US 3 after declaring war US 3 at the end of noncombat phase? yes

3)G2 sealion is successful or japan attacks someone before Japan turn 3.  US gets bonus income of the turn that that axis attack took place and can attack people before US turn 3? US can declare war on its turn, conduct combat, and collect war income. Important, they are not at war until they declare, so they won't defend UK/Anzac ships as long as you don't attack US holdings.

4) is there any economic benefit as far as the US bonus is concerned for Japan waiting until J4 to attack as opposed to J3?  Can US declare war and attack Japan on US3 if not attacked, or must it wait until US4?same thing for European side, can US attack turn 3 regardless of being attacked or not? Yes, waiting prohibits US from attacking Japan, useful depending on what you build as Japan in sz 6 since US can't hit it. USA cannot declare war prior to turn 3 unless politically activated/permitted too. If something permits them to declare early, they get a combat move and extra money for war.

Thanks for any input you all can give me.

Answers are in red above, I am not an official answer guy. They are pretty basic to veteran players though.

Welcome to the site.

[Schadenfreude]

Thanks a lot for the answers, really appreciate it.

Just out of curiosity, does getting that extra income US turn 3 (or earlier) affect the balance of the game in favor of the allies, or not enough to say definitively one way or the other? 

The reason I ask is that our games end up about 50:50 axis vs allies winning with the US getting their extra income on turn 4 (turn after DOW).  Maybe its just our group.  Is the general consensus that the game is balanced with the rules as-is?

[JimmyHat]

I think there is still a consensus that the allies are in favor at the moment.  However I believe the current rules are so close that it is going to take a few back and forths of which power is ascendant before we settle on the true leader.  That being said, I think leaving many of the rules as is would be fine.  Perhaps a reworking of NO's, but leaving them at the same value.  You appear to be saying that depriving US of that initial 30ipc's in NO's their first round of war might do the trick as well?  This is entirely possible, if going this route however I prefer the idea of making US pay to upgrade their IC's.  This equals about the same amount and doesn't mean the US is getting a 'free' upgrade.