Alpha 2 - Is it possible to beat Italy?

[captainhook]

Hi.

I know that I have already tried to discuss this, but the question still holds. Italy seems really hard to beat.

With the upgraded fleet, and the new NOs, the English don't seem to stand the slightest chance in the Mediterranean.

In my last game, I was playing Italy, and was earning 54IPCs/Turn towards the end of the game, and had already overtaken the brits, IPC-wise, by turn 3.

The English are forced to defend their Island for at least the two first turns, popping out no units in Africa, whilst the italians seize Southern France, Greece, a couple French northern Territories, block off the suez canal by taking transjordan, and progressively have enough units to take Egypt, wish they then just hold.

How the hell can the English stop them?!

[Gargantua]

LOL Is this a Joke?

Everyone knows that Italy is Ghastly underpowered.

The Italians are the easiest country in the game to stop save France - which isn't much more than a speedbump.

If the allies want to stop them, take Morocco, and get a ship into the med.  that's -10... If you hold in EGY and take Gibraltar by round 4,  thats - another 5.

[captainhook]

Fine, I expected a derogatory comment.

Yet, there must be something I am not seeing, otherwise I wouldn't be posting a question, would I?

Taranto seems very hard to pull off, which then leads to a swarm of Italian troops flooding Mediterranean countries, making Egypt seemingly hard to hold.

I do indeed ask, how is one supposed to stop Egypt from falling into Italian hands, and once the Med is held by the Italians, how is one expected to get "one ship" in there, as they tend to mass a good load of naval units either or west of gibraltar.

Plus, all the time spent by the US diminishing the Italians, is time not spent taking some pressure of the Russians.

[Gargantua]

Alot of things depend on the German Opener.

But the reality is this.

You can build a comprible fleet off of Gibraltar UK1 to face the Italians, stiffing them for -5, and holding gibraltar.

OR, you can nuke their ground forces in Tobruk with 1 inf malta, 1 art EGY, 1 mec 1 arm Egy, your planes and bombards.  Planes can then land on Malta for scramble effect.

OR you can nuke 2 transports and a battleship a cruiser, 1 fgt and 2 german fighters if they are sent, NO MATTER WHAT they do, at a slight risk of lowering the probability of successfully defending sealion - which still you have yet to fight.

I say slight risk, BECAUSE though you may lose 2 british fighters that "Could have" made it to the defense of England, you also kill 2 german fighters that would be there for the sea-lion.

[Gargantua]

It should be noted, when you do taranto properelly..


3 fgt's 1 tac 1 acc 1 cru 1 dst

vs

3 fgt 1 cru 1 bat

That you are usually left with some ships in the sea zone.  Then the Italians have to Attack those ships to have any hope of victory.  Leaving them with relatively little, VERY Early on.

[captainhook]

I see.

I didn't think about bringing some london planes to attack taranto. Are you saying, however, that you would eliminate your planes instead of your boats in the last stages of that battle?!

Regarding attacking tobruk. Wouldn't this lead to Egypt being left very weak, to be attacked by the 2 Italian transports on S97?

[Gargantua]

First of all you can block it.  Just drop a Destroyer off the coast of Cyprus,  WIth your main fleet at malta.

Secondly, you are only using 3 units from the egypt defence, to kill a crap load MORE units in Tobruk.

And finally, yes, Depending on how the hits go, I deliberately cap the aircraft carrier first, OR a plane, OR the dst cruiser... but it all depends on the dice.  Bottom Line is, if I win,  The Axis are out atleast a similar amount of units as I am, but Worse, they are out 2/3's of the Italian Transport capacity instantly.  And some of the NO's...

[captainhook]

I see your point.
 
Yet, even if defeated, in Taranto, the Italians will get 2 of their NOs on turn 3, as they will successively destroy the UK than the French fleet, and then proceed to conquer Gibraltar and Greece. However, I do indeed concur with the rationale behind your strategy. I did try to pull it off twice and failed, yet it does seem that I was unlucky with the dice, and that I didn't think about bringing a plane from London.

Thank you, sir!

YaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!

[Gargantua]

Also, If you've prevent Italy from getting it's NO's until I3, that is a major Allied victory....

US starts US4....

[Cmdr Jennifer]

First off, don't attack SZ 97!  Anyway you split this, given normal dice, this is a losing proposition for the British!

Secondly, you can readily dedicate 20-30 IPC of American units to harrying the Italians which should be enough to snipe some NOs away from them.

Later on, once England is secure, complexes in Egypt and/or Iraq and/or C. Persia allow British units easy access to Italian NOs and iwth reinforcements from India, some of these should be securable pretty early in the game.

[450thMSAF]

lol you cant beat italy!!!

[captainhook]

lol you cant beat italy!!!

No. But I can beat my dad. 

[Robson]

hm i didn´t see the problem to beat Italy.
Put the huge invasion fleet from the U.S. west of Gibraltar. There´s no better way to threaten Italy, the Med, North Africa and the Coast from Normandy to Norway. The Italiens with their little Income can never hold Gibraltar against a serious US Invasion. A that point Italy is screwed because their NO`s are gone in the next turns.

[Pherman1215]

Rofl, i can beat Italy before the US even gets involved in the war.  Smash SZ 95 first round, use the South African complex to transport troops to Egypt, and bring your Atlantic fleet down to deny them their NOs.  Italy will fold like a sheet.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

hm i didn´t see the problem to beat Italy.
Put the huge invasion fleet from the U.S. west of Gibraltar. There´s no better way to threaten Italy, the Med, North Africa and the Coast from Normandy to Norway. The Italiens with their little Income can never hold Gibraltar against a serious US Invasion.

Bomb the naval base in Gibraltar.  Threat gone.

I can hold Gibraltar easily.  I should ahve a combined German/Italian fleet in SZ 91 significantly powerful enough to force America to use overwhelming firepower, firepower they then have to take away from Japan to force me into SZ 92, and by then, I should easily have 8 ground units and 4 aircraft a round to throw at Gibraltar to secure the Med which is priority number 1 on the Europe board.