Italy Painted Pieces

@Ichabod:

@PainState:

A lot of posters seemed stunned at this scenario, never scene it ever happen or even could happen. Now that I mulled it over last night and looked at the rules and so forth it is very obvious to me why no one has ever scene this scenario. Because the scenario makes no logical sense.

Italy DOW on Russia and moves in 2 tanks into Eastern Poland.
Russia is now at war with Italy and can DOW on Germany at the start of their next turn, turn 3.
Germany on Turn 3 does not DOW on Russia and just non combats into Eastern Poland.
Russia at the start of Turn 3 DOW on Germany and off we go.

There is no logical reason why Russia would not DOW on Germany at the start of Turn 3, none.

Heck you could argue that it makes no logical sense that Germany did not DOW on Russia at the start of G3 since Italy brought Russia into the war and Russia WILL DOW on Germany on R3.

Hi PainState,

From my perspective, if I was planning on doing a G3 Barbarossa AND I wanted to drive towards the south, then yes, it makes sense to not DOW. My stack will be together except for the minimum required mobile units and maybe 1 AAA in Poland so Russia doesn’t attack Poland to get their NO for occupying an Axis territory. But E. Poland will be real strong because the German air will be there and maybe bombers will also be in range of a raid on the Moscow factory. Also, 5 IPCs is more income than I’d probably get as Germany on the 1st turn.

There are a few disadvantages of course. 1, Russian blockers can’t be attacked. 2, the Scandinavian units are behind. But for me that’s ok, I just use them to lay siege anyways. I never expect to get Moscow on turn 6 anymore. I assume that the UK/Anzac and that lone French fighter are going to get to Moscow.Â

That is indeed the strategy, and it relies on the allies having pretty bad luck to smash up those stacks without losing 50% of your starting planes.

Germany can replace the planes, but not at the same time as it builds mechs, armor stax
Japan has even more planes, but it needs even more than Germany does because without them, its a paper tiger.

The problem with doing these stub attacks is if you lose more than 50% of your starting air power before turn 5, you will not be able to force your victory cities and strategic objectives.  The consequences are felt several turns later (7,8), when you cant smash stax because you lost your mobile strikeforce.

@Patchman123:

@knp7765:

Yeah, I’ve gone kind of piece crazy myself. I have a specific set of pieces for each nation in Global 40 I call my gaming sets. Here is what comprises each nation set:
100 Infantry
50 Artillery
50 Mechanized Infantry
50 Tanks
40 Anti-Aircraft Artillery
40 Fighters
30 Tactical Bombers
30 Strategic Bombers
40 Transports
40 Submarines
40 Destroyers
30 Cruisers
20 Battleships
20 Aircraft Carriers
100 Control Markers
And that is just OOB units! The only exception is China, but they still have 100 OOB Infantry units. I also have some HBG units for China for artillery, tanks and fighters (some house rules allow China to have tanks).
To get these totals, I actually got several copies of the game when they came out and cannibalized them for pieces. I was able to sell off extras which helped me make back some of the money I spent, but it was still pretty pricy. 
On top of this, I have huge collections of HBG’s sets in just about every color available. This part is really silly on my part because I pretty much use the Olive Drab for US, Dark Grey for Germany, Burnt Orange for Japan, Maroon for Russia. Basically the OOB colors. So all of those other colors, like the Axis Minors, Neutral sets, US Supplement for Allies and alternate colors for the Japanese Supplement and Expansion sets just basically sit there in their containers. I keep thinking I will use them in trying out the HBG 1939 Global variant because it has all these little countries and you can use all the variant colors to represent them, but I never get around to doing so. My group simply prefers Global 40.
When I think back on how much I have invested in all these game pieces, it almost makes me sick. I enjoy my games and it’s a fun little hobby, but there is such a thing as too much.
Obviously having such large sets is not necessary. You can always use chips which in some cases you simply have to because of space limitations on the board. I hope you are able to find your balance. However, I must agree with YG, the pieces in a single game are simply not enough.

How many PER game, NOT total. What I mean by total is counting Europe 1940 Sec. Ed. and Pacific 1940 Sec. Ed separately, instead of as one game.

You can calm down - that posting is 3 and 1/2 years old and was just showing off how much money he’d wasted on extra pieces how many extra units he had for playing A&A.

There’s a Patchman123 on BGG who asked similar questions earlier this week - I answered the main questions he asked there. Assuming Patchman123 on A&A.org is the same person, I answered your question there and to help out the forum I’ll answer the same question here:

@midnight_reaper:

@Patchman123:

Could I please have an inventory on how many pieces there are with Europe 1940 First Edition and Europe 1940 Second Edition for all the countries involved in the game, such as France, United Kingdom, Italy, United States,Germany, and the Soviet Union?

I noticed that when I was selling Axis & Allies 1942 First Edition from 2009, that some Axis & Allies pieces from other games have been mixed in.

Could please have an EXACT count on how many pieces there are supposed to be in these games?

Exactly how many pieces are in all the editions of Axis & Allies from 1981-2017?

I am trying to sort my game out.

Let me point you at some online resources to sort things out. First, do note that some pieces are only in the First Edition, some only in the Second Edition. This post from axisandallies.org discuss which pieces changed between editions: www.axisandallies.org/p/whats-new-in-axis-allies-pacific-1940-and-europe-1940-second-editions/

That said, here is a listing from the Harris Game Design forums that lists what comes in a copy of Europe 1940, First Edition (well, both Europe and Pacific, but that will get you to Europe…): http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18469

And here is a forum post from axisandallies.org that lists what comes in a copy of Europe 1940, Second Edition (well, both Europe and Pacific, but that will get you to Europe…): https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30066.0

-Midnight_Reaper

Source: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1943468/number-pieces-europe-1940-first-edition-and-europe

What are your further questions?

-Midnight_Reaper

This strat has many angles to look at (a lot of if’s). Much would depend on the order and success of the German G1 attacks, and the UK counter punches. If UK lost any planes on G1 (or UK1) they aren’t looking to stack Paris (would be too weak). Keep in mind that as the allies you don’t know if this is on the table or not, but we’ve seen it once or twice so would be aware of the possibility.

I have to say that Whitshadw’s Atlantic attacks against the UK are more risky then I would normally do, maybe he wants UK to scramble to lose a couple planes so they can’t stack Paris (I personally don’t like risking German air power). With that said, he would also be in control of which battles are fought first, keeping his intent to weaken France for the Italians under wrap (a strat that could also be aborted, if it doesn’t feel right the Germans take Paris G1). I would also point out that the Germans would most defiantly be attacking at least one (maybe both) French coastal IC territories on G1. Germany needs the income, and you don’t want those French units to screw you (so please stop arguing that point). If (big IF) the allies don’t stack Paris, Italy would still get the 19 IPC bankroll for taking it It1 (would obviously be much less on G2 or It2). Another thing to point out is that normally the Paris assault takes two rounds, so it is very possible that the Germans won’t be able to strafe it for the Italians because the French folded to easy. It is also possible that the French fight hard, and the Germans have no choice but to leave it for Italy (it happens once in a blue moon).

From UK’s perspective:
It has been established that the UK could still attack Italian sz 97, and 96, but can’t use all her air power if she wants to land all available planes in Paris. Most planes can’t make the sea battles, and land in Paris (1-2 fewer UK planes change the odds rather dramatically in Paris). This would make the Italian sea battles more risky, but UK also knows that the Italians need those planes to sack Paris so would they scramble? At this point Italy may not know it is the UK’s intent to stack Paris, so it works both ways. If Italy can’t take Paris on It2, they would surly want to soften it up for a G2 attack

More to think about,
Did the UK 91 cruiser survive G1 to hit sz 96 w/air (didn’t see that as part of the German Atlantic campaign). If the UK loses a couple planes in either the G1 (scramble), or UK1 battles I don’t think the RAF lands in Paris (too weak) leaving it for the Italians. Either way the UK would probably still hit the bulk of the Ita navy though, so Italy would still be left in a pickle IMO, with a lot on their plate when their turn comes up (unless UK forgoes a naval attack and retreats to the Red Sea?). If the UK stacks Paris with air, and has a couple ships left in the Italian harbor after Taranto, Italy would need to chose attack ships (Brits & French), or attack Paris (for the Germans). I know the Italians can surround Egypt (with German air support), and have a chance to push through, but I also know the UK can bulk up to defend it by pulling units from India and S Africa, build an IC turn 1, or trade it. And yes the US can make a major impact in the Med, and very well may be parked off Gib on US3 (axis generally attack before or on turn 3), some variables there too. There are some games where UK attacks in the Pac and the US can’t leave DC until turn 4 (so they may go Pac where they can move). Also when the US is at Gib, they could also be going north to Norway, but the possibility of US in the Med will generally stall Italy.

Anyway, I don’t think this was ever meant to be a sure fire way for the axis to win a game. It is another possible strat to throw the other side off their game, or do something they may not be real comfortable with (like risking the RAF in Paris). You guys could play 10 games via AAA, but he wouldn’t attempt this in every game (maybe 2-3 times if things fell right). Under the right circumstances it could work out giving Italy some extra income (we have seen it). A strong Italy can be an aid to the Germans defensively, and could help to distract the allies. I know that giving Paris to Italy could also stall a Barbarossa for lack of units at the front. Depends on what round you plan on sacking Moscow. Maybe you just want them to collapse back to Moscow to make them irrelevant for some time, build up and then sack em using their own IC’s to produce units, or by building a minor in say western Ukraine or Ros for a few more good men.

Just thinking out loud that if the UK lost every ship and plane on the Atlantic side by round 2 either through attacks, or counter attacks, that has to be a major set back for the allies. Even if Italy doesn’t get Paris (Germany takes it round G2) and is partially neutered in the process the UK is nothing w/o the RAF, plus their is less allied air going to Moscow. Yea India and US could send some help, but Japan will be licking its chops.

FAQ (Bottom of page 2, top of 3) is pretty clear on this http://www.wizards.com/AvalonHill/rules/AAEurope1940_2ndEdition_FAQ.pdf

Gibraltor is the best landing spot when then can enter the war.  From this spot, they can land just about anywhere they want.

UK
Normandy
Southern France
Northern Italy
Southern Italy
Denmark
Western Germany (If UK can take Denmark ahead of them and hold it)
Norway

With the Naval Base damaged, they can only reach Normandy or Southern France.

Remember, “If you defend everywhere, you defend no where.”

Bombing the Naval Base takes pressure off of the Axis.  Germany will gain another turn not worrying if the US is going to attack Italy or land in UK or Norway or where ever.  They can concentrate on Normandy and Southern France.  Or let Italy defend Southern France and Germany Normandy.

I find it very interesting and will make plans to use this.

Doc

\ S /
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Hey guys, look at that steaming pile of BULL–---->        ~~~~~~
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Be careul not to step in that.

One needs to be prepared for every outcome.  That’s all I am saying.