Minor Axis Army Pieces

[coachofmany]

I am looking to see if there is interest in making a Minor Axis Army.
It would be 4-6 different colors for Romania, Finland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Germany, etc.
The set would also supplement German pieces needed.
There will be an infantry piece and artillery for the minors also.
Please let me know, you have 6 votes.

[DrLarsen]

The StuG III is an obvious choice.  Did y'all know that it was the most widely-produced German AFV of the war?  It was also given out to Germany's allies (making it fit the "axis minor" role well) and gives us at least one TD in the overall line-up.  I'd love to see some Panzer III's & IV's too, though more to give the Germans a "medium" tank option than for its intended use among Axis minors here; I think the set might sell even better in WotC-standard black and/ or FMG-standard grey as it will in the axis-minor colors...

[crusaderiv]

I second that.

I have 4 stug in my WAW set and I like its.

[DrLarsen]

I have to say, Coach, that I really like your new site and hope to be a good customer for you eventually!  One thing I noted with a twinge of disappointment: you used the modern Romanian roundel instead of that really cool yellow cross that they used in WW2!  But yeah, overall, great stuff and great job!  (I do like how you threw in that little jab about the "chimps," as IL used to call them, sticking us with an Iranian roundel and calling it an Italian one!  But then you go a step further and offer us an alternative!  Even better!)

[coachofmany]

Yes, I had to make some choices on the Minir Axis Roundels. I decided not to use the Finnish swastika, Romanian cross, etc.

Please take in consideration when voting.
These are primarily for Minor countries even though I will offer them in German black and grey. I do plan on making a supplement set with strictly German pieces, where I can come back and make pieces like the Elefant, Pz IVH, Me 262, etc.

I have already spoken with Jeremy at FMG and I will fill the gaps in his line of models. I will do my best to give people what they want but also have good reasons to make some of the models I am doing. FMG will carry my models as well ad I will carry his. I will also do them in FMG colors.

The project is a big undertaking for me, I have a factory established, pricing, and am moving forward on this. I hope to have the first minor set with Romania, Finland, Bulgaria, Hungary, German Black and Grey, and Italy since they used German pieces.

[DrLarsen]

I also really like the Hungarian version of the German "Balkenkreuse" (with green in the middle) but apparently they only used it on tanks, so I can see why you used the more common white one.  btw, does anyone out there know the history of the Romanian cross-roundel?  It's an interesting and neat shape and I wish I could find out more about it.  (I've long used a similar-shaped cross with different colors as a personal logo of sorts long before I knew of its association with ww2 Romania...)

Anyway, that's good news about the cooperation with FMG!  I hope you will someday get around to making some cool new naval pieces, too.  FMG only having room for 1 CA, 1 BB, & 1 CV per set leaves lots of room for house-rules supplemental pieces and there were so many interesting ships out there worth doing!  If you could find a way to economically sell major warships by the piece, I think you could easily command say, 2$ for a cruiser, 4$ for BB and 5$ for a CV and if you make them in a consistent scale you might also have a secondary war-gamer market to pitch to... Just thinking aloud...

But yeah, keep up the good work!
 

[KOOLHOVEN]

Could be well off here,I was thinking it was the Micheal(the Brave)cross.Micheal was regent(and son) of the royal family.I have decal sets for fighters and bombers and a set that is part of a minor axis power decal sheet in 1/300.They probably just miss as they are a little large for A/A armor.

Hope I'm nor off topic!

I also remember a metal for bravery bearing the same title.

[DrLarsen]

Thanks Kool!  That does sort of vaguely ring a bell... and give me at least somewhere to start looking...

Back to the main topic:

I was thinking about the options you have, and the thought struck me that I don't think that the Germans gave Jagdpanthers to any of their allies.  A few Panthers here and there, yes, but I'm not aware of any Jagdpanthers (though I could be wrong, if anyone out there has some info I don't.)  With that in mind, perhaps the Jagdpanther would be a better fit in the "supplemental German" set you were referring to, Coach?  Maybe you should do a similar poll for the supplemental German units set, put the Jagdpanther in that one and see what units are most popular in that context as a whole separate issue... we might get a better result for axis minors over here as a result, and people wouldn't be doing like I did and voting for things just because they want to see them done...

[coachofmany]

I have the minor army in action as of now and already decided on which sculpts to make but I can change. I know everybody has their favorite tank or piece they would like to see. I do plan on doing the Jagdpanther but not fir the minor set.
I Plan On making

Infantry with field cap
75 mm artillery
232 armored car
38t light tank
Opel blitz with tracks
Pz III medium tank
Stug III tank destroyer
Hummel self propelled artillery
21 cm Artillery

[coachofmany]

I am pretty set on this unless I am convinced by the masses to add , change, or delete a certain unit.

I want to make sure the minors have options when the game units are expanded by FMG and not have left units out for the minors.
Heavy tanks were German, maybe even the 21 cm heavy artillery.
I have researched the minors and have come up with this.

[DrLarsen]

I'll try and do some research on the artillery question.  (It's not easy to find good info on these axis minors...) 

I like most of your choices, but I'm not sure of the infantry in field hat idea... Most of the pictures I've seen of infantry from the axis minors, they're wearing helmets rather than field hats.  Here a standard Wehrmact infantry in a helmet might be a better choice, since the helmets used by most of the axis minors were either similar or identical to the German Stahlhelm.  The Romanians' helmets were more distinctive, but they'd be the exceptions... The Bulgarian M36 helmets were similar to (indeed derived from) the German Stahlhelm and those of the Hungarians and Finns were nearly identical... as were those of the Spanish and several other armies, so doing multiple colors of "Stahlhelm infantry" would actually be pretty useful for many applications...)

Another idea is to do some sort of long-coated "winter infantry" (since the Eastern Front would undoubtedly be their most useful application.)  I'd have to do some more research on this, though, as I'm not sure whether this means Stahlhelm or Field cap or something else (did the axis minors use anything similar to the Russian ushanka for winter wear?  I don't know...)

[coachofmany]

One reason I chose the field hat was that the pieces are offered in German colors also and gives you the ability to use them as light infantry. I am trying to do different sculpts from FMG.

Do you think the minors need heavy artillery?

Would you rather see another sculpt in place of the heavy artillery. I can always do it on a supplement set.

SP Artillery is another one I have considered not doing for minors but I am afraid if I cut them down to a min., I would want more sculpts later.
So I am trying to do them all that they would use.

[Imperious Leader]

lets see some pictures of these proposed units?

[DrLarsen]

I would say that assuming a separate German supplement set is coming, having a couple of infantry sculpts might be better than heavy artillery... and maybe 3 infantry options would be better than SP artillery, ESPECIALLY because you'll already have the StuG III to use as SP artillery, which was, indeed, somewhat closer to its original intended role.  (Interestingly, I recently discovered that StuG III's were mostly manned crews from the "Artillery" branch, whereas the TD's, like most of the other AFV's were manned by the Armor branch soldiers.)  Aside from a few StuG's, Most axis minor SP artillery (such as there was) was pretty ad hoc stuff; converted hulls of one thing mated to a completely un-related gun over here often even combining German and captured Soviet parts...!  Infantry is what the axis minors mainly had... for AFV's they pretty much made do with whatever they could get.

The dilemma (and I'm sure you've already been struggling with it) is that infantry uniforms are often where the national distinctives come out most.  Fortunately in the case of the axis minors, the widespread use of the German Stahlhelm and derivatives is likely to hide a lot of this on this scale, perhaps for all but the Romanians (whose helmets were actually based on the Dutch model, of all things!) It almost makes one wish you could do infantry and vehicles as separate categories: if you did do infantry with the Romanian helmet, if you went ahead and did some more in orange, you'd have the perfect Dutch infantry, but then you'd maybe want another vehicle set for the Dutch (one that includes some warships up to maybe cruiser size, certainly...)

I always thought those Dutch-Romanian helmets were pretty cool-looking and distinctive, if a little "villainous" (perhaps because they sub-consciously reminded me of those worn by "COBRA" soldiers in the "GI JOE" universe of my childhood)...

But I digress.  For the best possible applicability for axis minors, (setting issues of dual use as Germans or Dutch aside) I'd prioritize as follows:

1. Stahlhelm infantry
2. Field cap infantry
3. Romanian helmet Infantry

As to whether to put them in long coats or winter gear, I'm not sure yet.  I just ordered a book on Germany's East Front allies, so I'll report back my thoughts on that as soon as it arrives if it isn't too late by then...it's so hard to find good info about these armies on the web! (Unless I'm missing something...)

[Imperious Leader]

The game needs an airborne infantry unit, a marine unit, and a partisan unit. These can be the same sculpt but in different colors or just one set for axis and the other allies.

I very basic minor neutral army list with basic units ( just infantry, artillery, mech, and tank) and the missing French units that stole the sculpts from Russia.

A fortification unit or coastal gun battery plus some jet planes would be good for tech units.

These are the missing units from either OOB or FMG.


These would get more bang for the buck. I think people would or could just repaint the pieces for tank destroyers and armored cars. How many minor nations are going to have stug III?