Nazi invasion scenarios in US article ( Life Magazine 1942)

[Imperious Leader]

http://bigthink.com/ideas/26571

[FieldMarshalGames]

HA!  This one is the funniest!  Japanese troops, Vichy French and Germans come together to invade!  (The Italians were too busy I guess?)

[Fishmoto37]

Somebody had a lot of time on their hands!

[Gargantua]

C O O L

[CWO Marc]

Compared with the Axis world conquest plans presented in "Prelude to War," the first of Frank Capra's "Why We Fight" films, the Life Magazine plans look almost realistic.  You can watch that segment of "Prelude to War" from 2:00 to 4:50 minutes on this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umiFnWGzWls&feature=fvsr

I just love the big arrows showing North America being invaded via Greenland, the Amazon jungle, Alaska and French Polynesia.  Very practical indeed.  I think perhaps Capra forgot that he wasn't playing a board game.

[strategic planner]

They are fake. Roosevelt created these maps and lied to the public to garner support for WW2, which was hard to come by. Roosevelt was a liar, he lured us and made the Germans attack first, then lied about it, like the Greer. He also refused to negotiate with the Japs and he knew about Pearl Harbor, but did nothing.

[Imperious Leader]

FDR didn't make these maps. These are published in Life magazine. FDR does not make maps anyway.

[221B Baker Street]

 Excellent propaganda.

As far as what military planners were thinking at the time, in broad general terms, these could well have been imagined by military planners.  But realistically, America was invasion-proof.  For that matter, Great Britian was invasion proof after Sept. (which is why Operation Sealion was cancelled).  Even under ideal circumstances of , say July 1940, its a difficult stretch to imagine a successful Axis invasion across the narrow and nearby English Channel, let alone vast stretches of distant ocean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sealion

To have had any chance of success, however, the operation would have required air and naval supremacy over the English Channel. With the German defeat in the Battle of Britain, Sea Lion was postponed indefinitely on 17 September 1940 and never carried out...Military historians are divided on whether Operation Sea Lion could have succeeded; some, such as Michael Burleigh and Andrew Mollo, believe it was possible. Kenneth Macksey asserts it would have only been possible if the Royal Navy had refrained from large scale intervention[27] and the Germans had assaulted in July 1940 (although, in reality, they were totally unprepared at that time),[28] while others such as Peter Fleming, Derek Robinson and Stephen Bungay believe the operation would have most likely resulted in a disaster for the Germans. Adolf Galland, commander of Luftwaffe fighters at the time, claimed invasion plans were not serious and that there was a palpable sense of relief in the Wehrmacht when it was finally called off. Field Marshall Von Rundstedt also took this view and thought that Hitler never seriously intended to invade Britain and the whole thing was a bluff (to put pressure on the British Government to come to terms) [Operation Sea Lion - The German Invasion Plans section (David Shears) - p160]. In fact in November 1939 the German Naval staff produced a study (on the possibility of an invasion of Britain) and concluded that it required two preconditions, air and naval superiority, neither of which Germany ever had [Operation Sea Lion - The German Invasion Plans section (David Shears) - p156].

[CWO Marc]

Even under ideal circumstances of , say July 1940, its a difficult stretch to imagine a successful Axis invasion across the narrow and nearby English Channel, let alone vast stretches of distant ocean.

Yes, and a point which underlines this is the fact that it took Britain and the United States -- two countries with long naval traditions, and who were able to draw on the vast resources of U.S. industry --over two years to plan, build up for, and execute the D-Day cross-Channel invasion.  Germany didn't have resources on that scale to draw upon (I think for example that the Sealion plans required it to scrounge for canal and river barges for use as improvised landing craft), and Germany is traditionally a land power rather than a sea power.  German planners tended to regard the Sealion operation as just a large-scale version of a river crossing, a type of operation at which the German Army was skilled, but that was a simplistic view on their part. 

On a related point, one of the reasons for which Germany remained convinced that the Allies would invade France via the Pas-de-Calais (the shortest and most obvious route across the Channel) is that it didn't fully grasp that two major sea powers like Britain and the U.S. might have the skill and the capabilities to mount the invasion across the widest part of the Channel, something which Germany would not have been able to do in a Sealion-type invasion.

[FieldMarshalGames]

The Germans and the Japanese, both separately and non-connected, had larger long term plans for World Domination.

Germany in fact had a special dept for studying this issue.

They look silly here, but if Germany controlled all of Europe and Russian Asia, do you not think they would have the strength to take on the USA?  The United States would at that time be completely alone.  The "Neutrals" of South America would at that time most likely become pro-German for reasons of self preservation alone.

[Gargantua]

That's the only part of these documents that's not believable.

They don't have the resources to finish the Russians, and still haven't rolled over the U.K.  But somehow they are going to sail across the atlantic and PASTE the American east coast?

[Imperious Leader]

Well i think you  made a wrong assumption. The kaiser during the great war made plans to invade USA and these are official documents and also assumed that UK was not conquered. I can get you a link but google it. These plans were fairly extensive. I have seen the maps prepared and they are not like these Life magazine maps

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/may/09/kateconnolly

[FieldMarshalGames]

Well i think you  made a wrong assumption. The kaiser during the great war made plans to invade USA and these are official documents and also assumed that UK was not conquered. I can get you a link but google it. These plans were fairly extensive. I have seen the maps prepared and they are not like these Life magazine maps

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/may/09/kateconnolly

Operational Plan Three


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_Plan_Three

[221B Baker Street]

The Germans and the Japanese, both separately and non-connected, had larger long term plans for World Domination.

Germany in fact had a special dept for studying this issue.

They look silly here, but if Germany controlled all of Europe and Russian Asia, do you not think they would have the strength to take on the USA?  The United States would at that time be completely alone.  The "Neutrals" of South America would at that time most likely become pro-German for reasons of self preservation alone.

I disagree.

The US would not be completely alone.  Considering the Nazi approach to what they percieved as "inferior" races (i.e. send them to concentration camps to die), which would have become well known before this (if for no other reason than leaked by the US/UK) do you think Latin America would have sided with Nazi Germany knowing they (being considered an "inferior" race) would then be destined for the concentration camps?  Or that they wouldn't consider that nearby hordes of Americans would just storm south as the Axis would clearly be unable to provide sufficient support across vast oceans.  Don't forget Canada, Australia, S. Africa, India, etc. major parts of the UK empire that probably would fight on, also out of self preservation if no other reason.

Additionally, its one thing to hold large areas of Eurasia.  Its quite another to get enough economic benefit from it to justify the manpower and resources spent holding it. In short, holding these large areas could well be a drain on the Axis war economy, not a support.

Also, the A-bomb was possibly a game changer.  A Doolittle type raid on Berlin, for example, would have been possible by the US at any point in 1946 and beyond.  Given the superior abilities of the B-29 bomber (by far the best bomber of the war) I question the abilities of the German airforce to prevent a night raid of this type.  And since Germany stopped development of the A-bomb in 1942 at about the same place as the US, this would surely happen before the Germans could do the same via the Amerika bomber or V-3 as they would need to duplicate the manhattan project.  I'd guess they would need three more years in a crash program to do so.

[Imperious Leader]

Latin America would have sided with Nazi Germany knowing they (being considered an "inferior" race)

Argentina and Chile were pro axis and had totalitarian governments. Also, Spain was the link to all of them and Hitler had no ill will against Spain. Germany already established glider clubs and many business relationships with them in the 1930's

How could Spain support Hitler if he had this racial bias against Latin peoples?

BY the time Hitler might have won against UK and Russia, it would be at a point where they would have their own atomic weapons as well as Japan and I am not sure a B-29 was gonna take off any carrier with that payload.  In fact if they even bothered with USA it would be far in the future with a great consolidation of the recent gains.