USSR Invasion

[Hobbes]

Let’s take the G3 concentrated armoured push through Belarus as an example. I’ll leave the “Italian option” out since it’s too easy to counter.

If you mean to leave 3 or more infantry on Belarus to prevent the Italians from conquering it then that's 3 less inf for the Russian attack force.

I am trying to get a clear look of the moves/buys required to get to the 33 inf / 6 art / 2 mech / 2 arm / 2 fgt / 2 tac Russian attack force. I'll list them here to see if am getting anything wrong:

R1
* Buy 8 inf and 1 art
* Move 3 inf from Baltic, 3 inf from E. Poland, 1 arm 1 mech from Russia, 1 inf from Archangel, 6 inf 1 art from Novgorod to Belarus
* Move 2 inf from Bessarabia to Ukraine
* Move 2 inf from Vyborg and Karelia to Novgorod
* Send everything else towards Bryansk/Smolensk
* Place 3 inf on Novgorod, 5 inf 1 art on Russia

Total units: 32 inf, 4 art, 2 arm, 2 mech, 2 ftr, 1 tac

R2
* Buy 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tac
* Put everything in position to attack Belarus on the next turn.
* Place 1 inf, 2 art to Novgorod, 2 inf, 1 tac on Russia

Total force 35 inf (2 in Russia), 6 art, 2 arm, 2 mech, 2 ftr, 2 tac. That's the attack force you describe to counterattack the Germans at Belarus.

But to reach those numbers the Russians will have to move out every unit they start with plus all their production on R1 and on R2 will have to place units on Novgorod (the 1 inf and 2 art) and also leave some units behind to stop the Italians from taking Belarus. Or they might decide to take advantage of W. Ukraine being unguarded (since all units are placed to deal with the hypothetical Belarus thrust) and move to W. Ukraine since the Germans can defend that position from a Russian counterattack on R3. A large part of Russia's army will simply be out of position, since they are placed on Novgorod and out of the fight if Germany advances then to Bryansk. For the time being Russia will still be hold Novgorod but the Germans can either go for Moscow or take over the Caucasus.

I like the sound of that.

We'll see. I'll play tonight and see how it plays out.

Am I the only one who always upgrades to a Major Factory in Germany on the first turn? I never see it mentioned but to me it's obvious. You need to be able to mobilize 10 units there.

I have thought about it but on the first rounds I think getting one in Romania is more effective than upgrading the one in Germany if you are planning to take out Russia. It costs 10 IPC more but from there arm/mech can reach Moscow/Novgorod/Volvograd in 2 turns while it takes 3 turns for them on reach Russia from Germany.

[Hobbes]

Well, quite an interesting game last night. I ended up with Germany and Italy was given to a new player who had only tried the A&A computer game but likes board games.

I bought the Romanian IC on G1 and on G2 bought 3 arm and attacked, focusing on E. Poland. Russia focused its production more on infantry so on G3 i moved to Belarus with the 19 inf, 5 art, 13 arm stack and bought 5 arm, 5 mech.

But I made a mistake by moving the 6 inf from Finland to take Vyborg/Karelia on G3. The Russian stack on Novgorod was already cutoff from the rest of Russia and I just gave them targets to slow down the Germans by retaking Karelia on R3 and killing my 5 inf there.

So on G4 I had to build 3 transport to deal with the threat to Norway (and the US were about to attack France the next turn) so no arm/mech builds for Romania were possible. I had to clear the Russians on Novgorod and nearby areas but I also took Ukraine/W. Ukraine with my arm/mech builds.

On G5 I bought 13 mech for Novgorod/Romania. I finally cleared Finland and was set to move my entire stack to Bryansk to force the Russians give up Stalingrad but the attack on Bryansk failed! So my army was split into two. I moved the southern stack to Rostov for a feign towards Stalingrad (the UK had bought an IC for Persia and started sending armor to Russia from there). 

On G6 the southern army retreated from Rostov to Ukraine due to the large Russian infantry/mech stack there. Both stacks finally joined up on Smolensk on G7 and attacked Russia on G8. Russia had plenty of infantry (32-33 if I'm not mistaken) plus 8 Russian/UK armor and the planes. I attacked with 12 infantry, 25 armor, 1 fighter, 1 tac and 3 bombers. Odds were close to 50/50 and I got lucky and won.

Too bad Italy fell to the US to US7 and the Allies had a secure position on France.

[Jercules]

Has anyone considered/tried an early G1 Barbarossa with the purpose of securing Ukraine and West Ukraine and putting factories there instead of Romania (or perhaps with only a minor in Romania?)

[defoliant]

I had actually been considering doing just that in my next game. Not so much for getting factories in Ukraine...something that as far as I can see couldn't be accomplished until G3 at the earliest and thus you only get one or at most two builds out of them, but for putting pressure on Russia before they can consolidate their stacks.

A factory in Romania along with capturing East Poland and Bessarabia on G1 and shifting the two inf/art stacks in Germany east brings possible enormous pressure on Russia and might put them on their heels and never let them regain their balance. The downside is that some planes are needed to take France on G1 so you will leave the UK with some fleet, but I don't see how that is a problem for Germany. Build enough units to hold (or possibly retake if UK is aggressive) Denmark and I fail to see how the UK can bring sufficient force to bear before Germany has a secure hold of most objectives in Russia.

[ThoTho]

A G1 attack on USSR force you to watch carefully Poland and Germany (even maybe Norway or Denmark) because they can drop 2 units with their transport and BB. UK could even reinforce the USSR navy with their surviving navy, so that must be something to consider. This could be an suicide attack from the USSR (losing there initial navy) but it can cut your forces in two and block your tanks and mech inf from joining your infantry stack for one turn, giving more time to USSR to organise themselve. 

For Germany, pressuring the south would be the best choice though, because there are few unit there and Stalingrad could fall easily (even more if you have a major IC in romania). 

[calvinhobbesliker]

A G1 attack on USSR force you to watch carefully Poland and Germany (even maybe Norway or Denmark) because they can drop 2 units with their transport and BB. UK could even reinforce the USSR navy with their surviving navy, so that must be something to consider. This could be an suicide attack from the USSR (losing there initial navy) but it can cut your forces in two and block your tanks and mech inf from joining your infantry stack for one turn, giving more time to USSR to organise themselve. 

For Germany, pressuring the south would be the best choice though, because there are few unit there and Stalingrad could fall easily (even more if you have a major IC in romania). 

How does UK reinforce the Russian navy if the UK navy dies on G1? In fact, if you're doing G1 Barbarossa, the BB/Tr should be attacked

[ThoTho]

A G1 attack on USSR force you to watch carefully Poland and Germany (even maybe Norway or Denmark) because they can drop 2 units with their transport and BB. UK could even reinforce the USSR navy with their surviving navy, so that must be something to consider. This could be an suicide attack from the USSR (losing there initial navy) but it can cut your forces in two and block your tanks and mech inf from joining your infantry stack for one turn, giving more time to USSR to organise themselve. 

For Germany, pressuring the south would be the best choice though, because there are few unit there and Stalingrad could fall easily (even more if you have a major IC in romania). 

How does UK reinforce the Russian navy if the UK navy dies on G1? In fact, if you're doing G1 Barbarossa, the BB/Tr should be attacked

Well I didn't plan out all the move, but I don't think that Germany can, in it's first turn, kill all the UK navy, kill the USSR BB/Tr, take France and attack Bessarabia & Eastern Poland. Maybe they can do it, but there will be a few weak point in Germany setup. If you buy a major factory in Romania to keep the pressure on the USSR, they won't be much of the Germany navy left so UK could take advantage of that.

I'll try to do a simulation of all those G1 move , but I think it's seems to good on paper to work that well in a real game.

[defoliant]

Indeed, some UK navy will be left on the board, but how will it reinforce the Sovs? As long as Denmark is Axis, the Baltic is a German lake. Also, as Cal said, if you choose to attack USSR on G1, you should by all means kill the Soviet navy.

[ThoTho]

Indeed, some UK navy will be left on the board, but how will it reinforce the Sovs? As long as Denmark is Axis, the Baltic is a German lake. Also, as Cal said, if you choose to attack USSR on G1, you should by all means kill the Soviet navy.

Oups my bad, I forgot about the Danish Straights. It's still hard to fortress western europe when the UK controls the sea, with the USA joining them on turn 4 or 5.

[RedHunter]

If you leave the Uk fleet alive then they will build transports and start attacking France.