• Hi, since no one really found a way to prevent a G3 Sealion, is there a way to deal with a loss of England as the Allies?
    I’m using Jim’s moves http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20231.0

    I’d like to know, if the assumptions I made are somewhat realistic, to use as a model post Sealion scenario to see whether the Allies can still win.
    So is that which follows a realistic assumption?

    Now, for the general Situation, lets say Italy’s navy was destroyed UK1 and thus Italy isn’t getting anywhere in Africa yet.
    And Germany hasn’t used its airforce to clear SZ 93, because going up against 1 des 1 Cru 1 ac 1 ftr 1 tac is just too expensive (like 5 hits), putting Sealion at risk.
    The buys aren’t really clever, just to get some units on the board for the sake of comparison.

    Start:
    Germany:
    28 inf 7 rtl 4 mech 8 arm
    4 ftr 3 tac 1 bom
    5 sub 1 Cru 1 bb 1 trn

    Russia:
    24 inf 3 rtl 2 mech 2 arm 2 ftr 1 Tac

    Casaulties:

    Sea Battles G1
    3 sub, 2 ftr

    G2+G3 nothing I guess, since UK navy goes after Italy’s

    Land G1
    France 5 inf 4 mech 1 rtl
    Yugoslavia: 3 inf

    Land G2+G3 nothing but Sealion
    activates Finland and Bulgaria + 8 inf

    Sealion:
    11 inf 3 rtl 8 arm 2 ftr 3 tac 1 bom + bb
    20 inf 4 ftr 1 Tac + aa
    Ger wins with: 2 arm 1 ftr 3 tac 1 bom

    Russia: none

    IPC are spent for:
    Germany:
    buys G1 1 ac 1 sub 1 trn
    buys G2 9 trn
    buys G3 something like 9 inf 1 rtl 4 arm
    buys G4 something like 8 inf 8 mech 2 arm 2 ftr

    Russia:
    buys R1 4 rtl 2 inf 2 arm
    buys R2 6 inf 2 arm
    buys R3 6 inf 2 arm
    buys R4 6 inf 2 arm

    USA:
    buys US1 4 trn 1 inf 1 rtl
    buys US2 1 ac 1 Tac 1 des
    buys US3 1 inf 2 arm 2 sub 1 des
    buys US4 1 ac 1 ftr 1 Tac

    So, at the beginning of turn 5:
    Germany has
    34 inf 4 rtl 8 mech 8 arm 3 ftr 3 tac 1 bom

    Russia has
    44 inf 7 rtl 2 mech 10 arm 2 ftr 1 Tac

    Fleets:
    Germany:
    3 sub 1 cru 1 ac 1 bb 11 trn

    Italy:
    1 des 1 Cru 1 trn

    Russia:
    1 bb 1 sub 1 trn

    USA:
    2 ac 2 sub 3 Des 5 Trn

    There are some spare French and English units on the board, which will deal with Italy, or vice versa. But Italy with its crippled fleet can’t do all that much anyway.
    The US will take its time, but it can throw those 5 trn at England if not properly guarded, or land in Africa.
    Keep out of reach from German fleet and air combined though (but the fleet should be in the Baltic I guess)
    Would probably be better to buy differently, so that a constant flow arises. But just for a first idea.

    Income: Italy like 14, Germany like 59 + 10 vs Russia 28 (+5)  USA 35 +30
    so 83 vs 93

    What do you think? Or has someone else created an idealized post Sealion situation?


  • Germany doesn’t win every sealion.

    But UK might need to fly the TB to UK and leave the italian fleet alive.
    Buy infantry, bring over the Canadian forces and pray your AA will do a good job.

    Even if Germany succeeds, that doesn’t mean they have won, a lot will depend on they have spent and lost on the sealionand on what Russia has done (bought)

    1 thing is for sure, if UK falls, USA shouldnot liberate it unless it is absolutely certain it can keep it, if not , Germany will probabaly take UK again (or worse, wait 1 turn and then take UK + all UK’s money as extra again).


  • I believe the allies can lose 1 capital and still win, losing 2 capitals should end the game for the allies.

    Well, when playing UK vs a Sea lion build as you described above: 2 less German air units and 1 transport G1; I would counter with bringing 1 arm, 1 inf, 1 fighter, and 1 CA/Transport(sz98) from Alexandria to E. Gibraltar sz92(land units offload) to meet up with 1 carrier, 1 DD, 1 Fighter (London). I Land the Tac Bomber in London and transport 1 inf, 1 arm from Quebec to London if able, producing 9 land units (9 Inf,save 2 IPCs to Build 10 units round 2).

    Personally, I have had success lately ignoring Africa and using the starting UK units to stage south of Anglo Egypt Sudan to delay half of the IPCs from going to Italy(Africa is 12 UK IPCs). The Italian fleet doesn’t matter unless they are sailing into the Atlantic. Yes they can threaten Gibraltar, but I would rather my US land units defend at 2, vs Italian amphibious assaults(UK if alive can always reinforce a US Gibraltar landing with land and air).

    Yes, Italy can hit the fleet, in which case you destroy them with only naval assets as their air can’t hit that zone on round 1 unless Germany has S. France. Also, Germany can sink that fleet (has happened to me once) but not without losing their air force and thus the threat of a sea lion, assumes Italy takes Algeria or Morocco.

    If Italy hits the fleet, they attack with 1@2, 2@3, 1@4 vs the UK with 2@2,1@3,2@4 plus 1 extra “hit” on the carrier.

    The following turn, I send the Gibraltar land units to London, fly the air units to London and sail the fleet towards the US or Canada. This gets 3 more units from Africa to London before the G3 assault. So you should build 19 land units, land 2-4 more from Africa/Quebec 2 start in London and have 1 tac and 4 fighters when Germany hits you with 11 transports and 6 air. That is 28-30 units defending vs 28 attacking=a close fight.

    If Germany takes UK turn 3, Russia takes either Poland, Slovakia, or Romania on turn 4. I don’t think the Axis win taking UK first. I may be wrong. If Germany builds land units to hold London, it will be hard to push Russia out of the German zones, if Russia gets a Major factory in Romania, you may never dig them out. US will need to focus on London, to force the axis to take Moscow in order to have a chance for a win.


  • I want to try this next as Axis.

    1.) Do G3 or G4 Sealion

    2.) J1, J2, J3- build up in Japanese seazone for a largescale Alaskan invasion.

    3.) Pull off Sealion and Alaskan invasion in the same round

    4.) With Japan pressing into Canada and threaten WUS and keep shucking troops over to Alaska.

    With Japan doing a KAF, it may distract US financially enough to have to divert a good amount of cash and units into the Pacific theatre, buying the time Germany, Italy needs to sack Moscow in few rounds.


  • @JamesAleman

    The trns in the Atlantic should all be gone by G1, so ou can only bring in two reinforcments from Egypt, at the cost of sparing the Italian navy. In UK3 you won’t be able to head to Canada and back. I don’t know if it’s worth letting the Italians free reign in Africa.

    @Jim
    Hadn’t you reworked your Sealion strat a some point, or did I use the most recent?


  • @questioneer:

    I want to try this next as Axis.

    1.) Do G3 or G4 Sealion

    2.) J1, J2, J3- build up in Japanese seazone for a largescale Alaskan invasion.

    3.) Pull off Sealion and Alaskan invasion in the same round

    4.) With Japan pressing into Canada and threaten WUS and keep shucking troops over to Alaska.

    With Japan doing a KAF, it may distract US financially enough to have to divert a good amount of cash and units into the Pacific theatre, buying the time Germany, Italy needs to sack Moscow in few rounds.

    Don’t forget this is Europe ;)

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