Sealion Ops-Is it really that advantageous?

[eindatadog]

 Hi all, i was going to post this in one of the sealion threads but it covers several different happenings of our games...

 So far i've played the Axis twice and both times have had a very successful Sealion in both games on G2 though the first game was our first play and i totally forgot about the IPC win from taking France and UK  , both times with very few losses, the second game went incredibly well with the loss of only one sub and one tac bomber...

 However, on G3 in the first game i preempted the attack on the USSR which was fairly successful at first crossing into the territory and beating the Russian forces roundly. Until i got to Moscow which became a grind, which we both thoroughly enjoyed though. At which point the US had entered the conflict and was landing forces in Normandy, Germany was holding it's own though by countering the assaults with troops from France and Holland.

 Italy had also been massively successfully in Africa and the Persian Gulf, controlling the Med, UK still held south Africa but remained unable to break out, out classed by the Italians I was moving forces and countering anything the UK could throw at me freely.

 Okay so i think we both made mistakes, my main one was not placing a major factory as near to the Russian lines (as near as feels safe) as possible to quickly move troops into Russia, possibly spent alittle to much time mopping up troops on the way to Moscow, though i did not want to leave pockets of Russians as they'd be free to nobble my reinforcing Germans. The Allies mistakes were simply rushing for the Normandy Ops as America, showing no real interest in liberating Britain or helping the belegard UK troops in south Africa.

 I have to say though i still think it's stacked slightly against the Axis, though a few of us were unhappy at how easy the UK seemingly collapses under a focused German assault I feel that the Germans are doomed to a slow death as explained in my first game though i missed things i thought i did well and honestly luck was with me, if it wasn't for my opponents obsession with Normandy and not going for the UK Lib or the fairly soft underbelly of Italy itself or even into Africa and pushing north through Egypt and then into Syria I would have been doomed from the start. We enjoyed both games however and i look forward to when i get to play the UK as i'm interested with the tactical options it has and interested what it's like to play the government in exile if i lose the UK which undoubtedly is a favour my friends would like to repay 

[Bodeacious]

Look. The few players who seem to indicate Axis victories don't seem to have tried Sealion. I'm starting to think that it is easier to take 3 SU cities, Paris, and Cairo. I'm gonna do the usual two transports and a carrier G1 on the weekend, but then, it's Major IC in Romania and men and artillery until we take Moscow. Hopefully the Italians can slow down the US long enough for the victory, given they should still have most of their fleet.

[Arminius Germanicus]

So far i've played the Axis twice and both times have had a very successful Sealion in both games on G2 though the first game was our first play and i totally forgot about the IPC win from taking France and UK  rolleyes, both times with very few losses, the second game went incredibly well with the loss of only one sub and one tac bomber...

Sorry but I think your oponent(s) / UK Players simply wasn´t smart enough.
IMO Sea Lion cannot be preformed w/o significant losses and/or extrem luck...

Italy had also been massively successfully in Africa and the Persian Gulf

WTF ? Didn´t the UK Player made the Tranto Raid ?
(I think so b/c Italy wouldn´t have been massively sucessful in the MED)
AND lost London on G2 too 
I would like to have such an (unclever) opponent just once 

showing no real interest in liberating Britain or helping the belegard UK troops in south Africa.

belegard sounds like belagert so you mean sieged, right ?

Because I failed Sea Lion in my first Game as Axis,
I will try Barbarossa on G2 or G3 next time,
with a IC (Maybe G1 Minor , G2 upgrade to Major) in Romania.
But this reminds me of the Old AAEurope,
where it was the only option to win for Germany.
Hope (but don´t see how) the Game could be won with a Early G2 or G3 Sea Lion
if players are head 2 head in experience and either has more luck with the dice.
If Sea Lion succeeds it will depend on the ongoing turns....
If it fails the game is just over in G2/G3 - no need to play further.

[eindatadog]

Look. The few players who seem to indicate Axis victories don't seem to have tried Sealion. I'm starting to think that it is easier to take 3 SU cities, Paris, and Cairo. I'm gonna do the usual two transports and a carrier G1 on the weekend, but then, it's Major IC in Romania and men and artillery until we take Moscow. Hopefully the Italians can slow down the US long enough for the victory, given they should still have most of their fleet.

 I think that maybe the case, i would like the chance to play the Germans again to get the chance to take the fight wholly to the Russians. Partly it's down to speed i guess, rapidly taking down the Russian victory cities, possibly kicked of by some concentrated assault (sea, air) through the Baltic States. Though i imagine the tactics have been discussed at length on the forum already.

 However though i did not go into my second game playing as the Axis i'll mention that i suffered horribly with the Italians, lost my navy to some horrible luck and even failed in the attack on Southern France even though in both cases i used more troops than they had defending. From then on i was unable to force anything other than stalemate in Africa, I felt the loss of the additional power the Italians had from the first game keenly in my second and I honestly think the Germans suffered because of it.

Sorry but I think your oponent(s) / UK Players simply wasn´t smart enough.
IMO Sea Lion cannot be preformed w/o significant losses and/or extrem luck...

 Oh and i agree totally, we are all new to the game and both opponents i played simply did not reinforce UK with much of anything, though i was very lucky in both games as well in terms of taking few casualties. In my first game i only lost two subs and two planes and in the second game i lost even less.

WTF ? Didn´t the UK Player made the Tranto Raid ?
(I think so b/c Italy wouldn´t have been massively sucessful in the MED)
AND lost London on G2 too 
I would like to have such an (unclever) opponent just once 

  I'll put that down to Mistakes and not seeing the big picture    Though i also made mistakes I imagine it would be interesting to play the same opponents again in the same roles just to see what would happen in concern to the defence of the UK. Though i imagine i would actively ignore the UK this time and go straight for Russia  

belegard sounds like belagert so you mean sieged, right ?

 Yes.

Because I failed Sea Lion in my first Game as Axis,
I will try Barbarossa on G2 or G3 next time,
with a IC (Maybe G1 Minor , G2 upgrade to Major) in Romania.
But this reminds me of the Old AAEurope,
where it was the only option to win for Germany.
Hope (but don´t see how) the Game could be won with a Early G2 or G3 Sea Lion
if players are head 2 head in experience and either has more luck with the dice.
If Sea Lion succeeds it will depend on the ongoing turns....
If it fails the game is just over in G2/G3 - no need to play further.

 I want the chance to play the Axis again, then i can attempt Barbarossa without the concern of defending UK against a possible assault from the US. Mainly to see how rapid the push on the Russian VC is if i throw everything i can muster in Germany. And personally i believe it becomes about speed when you enter into Op Barbarossa

 In the end even though i had succesfully taken UK i don't believe it helped my cause and my basic mistake of not placing a factory closer to the Russian front led to slow reinforcement of the main army attacking Moscow though in the end Russia was in a losing battle as i'd reduced it's IPC. However like you pointed out i believe if we had have been more experianced then i believe the US could have caused me massive problems if the player had taken the time to liberate Britain instead of singularly becoming obsessed with assaulting Normandy and pushing into France and then on into Germany.

[RedHunter]

IMO Germany has to do some things early game to have any chance at all.
1. Take out France turn 1(or have Italy finish it off)
1. Kill the UK fleet turn 1 and build transports to get ready for SeaLion
2. Take London or failing that cripple the UK to the point that it becomes pretty useless.
3. Have a large enough fleet to force Amercia to spend time building esort fleets instead of just rushing transports into Africa or Europe.
4. Build a stack of tanks for the attack into Russia. Because if Germany doesn't attack Russia will.