The Berlin-Rome-Moscow axis and the Anglo-Japanese alliance.

So, ive been reading through the political situation “rules” and i’ve picked up on something kinda funny. The rules all say that whatever power can, or may, declare war, on pretty much anyone, either whenever it wants or after “X” turn. What makes this kinda funny to me is, that it never says you have to. I know I know, why wouldnt you declare war and get in the fight, whats the fun of sitting around and collecting income, but please, bare with me here.

As we all know, Japan and the Soviet Union are free to declare war and attack each other to their hearts content without any other power giving a damn, outside of China, maybe. So to me it seems that the Soviets and Japan are more like independant powers then members of an alliance. Japans war in China is even seperate from the Euro-axis war, with its european allies being allowed to declare war on China only if they want. So, if the soviets attack or declare war on Japan, Germany dosnt have to attack, and is even rewarded 5ipcs if it dosnt. Similarly if the Japanese attack the Soviets, Britian and France and America just pretty much shrug. Even stranger is that a Japanese attack on France, dosnt change its standing with Britian. Not really much of an alliance if you dont have to back your fellow powers up if the are attacked.

SO, to me it seems, that if Germany dosnt rush to Japans aide against Russia, then there is no real need for the British to rush to Russias. These 2 powers can, if they want, do absolutely nothing to eachother, and even be rewared with NO money for it. If the Germans throw Japan to the wolves (or bear in this case) by not attacking, Then there is no real reason for the Japanese to attack the western allies to their south.

This makes for an intresting situation, and it would seem a chance to shift alliances. You would need to have the majority of nations played by actual people, and be fairly open minded about the political rules and “how the game is won” and all that, but it might make for some pretty intresting games.

Im having browser issues so let me elaborate a bit. If the Germans dont attack the Soviets if they declare war on Japan, they become defacto allies to the Soviets, even if passive complacent, they are still helping the Soviets more then Japan. So, similarly, If the soviets were, in turn, not to declare war on the Germans, they would be helping the Germans more than the British.

Granted, both powers could start tearing eachother to pieces on any turn they wanted, but I think it would be kinda intresting to see where they game would go. I mean, if the Soviets could swing the bulk of their offensive power against Japan, how would this effect things? How long could the Japanese hold of the Russians and their new Chinese allies? would this make China a defacto Axis partner? How would it effect British standing with the Chinese? How would this effect the British in Europe, knowing that there isnt going to be a German adventure in the east to take the pressure off them. What will Japans response be to being abandoned by their Euro-allies? It really changes things up

Thats the thing though, if the Germans and the Soviets enter into their state of defacto alliance, Japan is really abandoned by the Euro-axis. Japan has 2 choices, either fend off the soviets and hold the line in China while preparing to strike south anyway, or, Ignore their commitment to the axis (as the Germans have already) and focus on the Soviets and China only. Japan can still occupy French indo-china, for the ipc bump, with out effecting its realtions with Britian. Britian and Japan have a similar situation to the Soviet-German border, where neither country has to attack the other, but can tear eachother apart whenever they want. If the Soviets are going to leave the British to the Germans, then similarly the British can allow peace in the region and leave the Soviets to the Japanese.

America can still enter the game on turn 4, but as its rules say, it can declare war on any or all of the axis powers. Meaning that the pacific can further remain at peace, as America can focus its attention on Europe, while Japan focuses on the Soviets and/or Chinese. This brings Japan into a state of defacto alliance with britian and the USA.

The way I see it, the China fight isnt so lop-sided once the Soviets get involved, So perhapse it might lessen US opisition. Also, the soviets gaining influnce over China wouldnt sit any better with the US then Japanese expansion. If anything the old maxim “the enemy of my enemy……” is all thats really needed to solidify a US policy of non-involvment in the Russo-Chinese alliance v Japan war.

I would say that by the end of Turn 5, when checking for axis victory, if the Soviets and the Euro-axis are not at war, count any Soviet controlled VC towards the axis total. If Japan is not at war with Britian and the USA, count any Japanese VC towards the Allied total.

or something like that.

I dont think the war in the pacific becomes boring, it becomes non-existant for the allies. However, as you said, with Germany asscendant in Europe by turn 4, it becomes crucial for the allies that the British and Anzac forces from the Pacific, be allowed to move to Africa, the Middle East, and, eventually maybe, Europe, to help the mother country. Similarly, With the Axis in Europe growing to such a powerful state, the USA will need to focus most, if not all, of its IPC welth to save Europe and liberate the UK, should London fall to the Germans. With all of Westerm Europe and the British home isles under German control, their economy will be around 50icp before NO’s, and with 2 of those the will be at near 60, I think. If you combine that with an Italy that controls the Med, middle east, and neraly all of Africa, you have a second power that will, once NO’s are added, be at around 40ipcs. This means the USA will have more than enough to do in Europe, and not having to fight in the Pacific will be a decisive.

Japan will also have more than enough to do trying to fend off the Soviet Union and the Chinese. Granted, at first Japan will be able to crush most, if not all opposition in the area. However, once Soviet units start to arrive in China, things will start to swing against Japan. And as more of the Soviet offensive forces reach Siberia and China, it will become harder for Japan. Also, and this may be where Japan will have the most trouble, its economic gains will not be enough to sustain a protracted campagin of attration against the Sino-Soviet forces. Japan has 2 great strenghts, its airforces and its navy. While it is extreamly unlikely that the Soviets will ever become a threat to the Japanese navy, it will, over several turns, be able to reach parity to the Japanese in strenght of airforces, through both attrition and through dedicated spending. The problem for Japan becomes that the only places it can expand to increase its economy is into British and American tt to their south, even to get NO money as well. However doing so, in the face of a determined Soviet offensive and a passive German east-front, is suicide for Japan. Therefore, a Japanese player that finds itself in such a situation must fight with considerable skill and tatical wisdom if its going to stop the Sino-Soviet forces arrayed against it.

Dosnt sound like a very boring war to me!  :-D

I think with the new political rules, and the amount of autonomy the Soivets have, you could very easily rename it, Axis&Allies&Russia&Japan (hell you could even add on &China). 
Most of my speculation still works within the frame of the games rules, in name only. All that I have put forth is a scenario that can take place without brining the allies into direct conflict with eachother. I’ll admit the Pacific one is a bit of a stretch, but its all still plausable without introducing any house rules, modification of the setup, or really changing the victory conditions all that much.

What becomes a bit intresting further is what roll China will play in such a scenario. I have seen many threads about how to modify China and make it play more of a roll in the game. If someone was to try this scenario out, China could become crucial. There main objective is to hold on as long as possible, liberate the Japanese occupied chunk of their country, and keep the Burma road open so supplies can flow in and Arty purchased. As China is completely out matched by China and really on the ropes, so would be thrilled to have a new ally to reenforce them and be able to match their enemy technologicaly. The only issue is what happens when russia becomes a defacto axis member, and Japan becomes a defacto ally. What status dose China have? Its main NO clearly links it to the allies, but Soviet forces are doing the bulk of the fighting against their only enemy, Japan. Also, if you were to reevalutae how Soviet and Japanese vc are counted, what status dose Shanghai have? Its Chinese orignally, but it has been liberated by the Soviets, so how would it count?

Also, is there any way the allies can keep China firmly in the Allied camp? Outside of the Burma Road, what incentive can the allies really offer to China once the Russians start liberating the IPC rich Costal areas? Is China going to be forced into the arms of the Soviets, a axis partner, and if so, should Shanghai count towards the axis total? Dose this make China a defacto axis member like it dose Russia?

Im also wondering, if the Soviets start making real progess aginst Japan, perhapse it would be best for British India and ANZAC to join in on the fall of the Empire. This may be the only way to keep China from becoming a Soviet puppet

They screwy thing about it is that its all done with in the current frame-work of the games political rules and NO’s.

The thing is, if the Japanese focus on the Asian mainland against the Sino-soviet forces, and dose not attack south, then British India and the ANZAC forces could move west towards Africa and the Middle east, to help support the mother country and stem, and push back an Italian offensive towards India. I think it would be very difficult for Italy to make it all the way to India in strenght enough to actually take it, espically if the Anzac and India forces know their home turf in the Pacific is safe from a Japanese attack, nothing would prevent these 2 powers from going all out to stop them.

Thanks for posting!! I had kinda figured that Japan would be in the toughest shape, seeing as how all their objective money and all the IPC heavy tt are under allied control, i’ll be intrested to hear how long they hold their superiority

Intresting strategic situation!
What state is Mongolia in is my first question. You mentioned some of the true neutrals being under axis control so Im wondering if this has impacted the Soviet-Japanese front. I am glad to hear that Japan is able to maintain is supremecy on the Asian mainland after Russia starts helping China. I assumed that once the US got into the fight, and could focus all its 80IPC strait at the euro-axis it would be very damaging, even more so in your game after what sounds like a pretty nasty brawl over there in London!

Now seeing as how you have reached the end of turn 5, there are 2 way I could see you advance.
1 would be to keep playing the game out and see how much longer the Euro-axis can hold out and try to break the dead lock Japan and the Sino-Soviets forces are in.
2 you could bring the Soviets and Japanese in to their new alliances as full members, not just defacto. It would be intresting to see how a full Axis Soviet Union would effect the game, and the same is true of allied Japan.

Would this be the tipping point? Would this give the Euro-axis the shot in the arm it needs to stand up against the allies, and will this give Japan the edge they need to break deadlock in Siberia?

Also, how dose this effect China? since the Soviets and allied with them, dose this make them axis? Should this take away the Chinese Burma road NO, seeing as how they are at war with a British Ally? What status dose China hold? Are they defacto axis? If fighting breaks out between the Soviets and the allies, dose it make China a full axis member? Or dose China have the unique status of being an unaffiliated beligrent, a Playable Neutural power, if you will

I excitedly wait to hear what you do, and thank you again for testing this out!  :-D