Sea Lion A Success!!

[robbie358]

So here's my after-action report for the game we finished tonight.  I was Germany and Italy vs. 3 allied players in Russia/France, UK, and USA.  I did my typical G1 craziness and beat down France and Yugoslavia.  Much to my surprise, the UK player did not build anything actually in the UK, let alone bring his fleet out to stop an invasion.  Italy got their fleet trashed, then managed to regroup and take Greece and eventually (on I2) Egypt.  G2 I built 7 transports and wiped his navy off the map with my air, G3 I invaded England and took it.  It was turn 4 before I ever devoted resources to Russia.  Meanwhile, Italy took THE ENTIRE MED and by turn 7 was raking in 34 bucks a turn... enough for a whole bunch of fighters and infantry.

Turn 4 I had a decision... built Navy to contest the USA or plow into the now very-formidable Russian front, I chose the latter (could have been a mistake).  With my 92 bucks on turn 4 I bought a whole lotta tanks and I did the minor in Yugoslavia-thing to get troops to Africa (like I needed it, should've just sent my navy down from England into the Med) and built up for the Russian campaign.  I ended up going north and hitting Leningrad with 17 tanks, 24 mechs, 10 artillery, and 4 inf.  It was at this point we ended the game.  The USA had built up his fleet enough to go to Gibraltar and kill the Italian fleet, and was sitting there with a sizable force.  There was 10 German infantry in France ready to hit any landing zone in Europe, 12 infantry and 2 fighters defending London, there were 10 infantry and 4 fighters and 3 tac bombers in Southern Italy ready to repel an invasion, Italy owned Iraq, Persia, and India, and I was two turns away from Moscow with no sense of urgency to attack.

 Final IPC count was Germany: 77  Russia: 23  Italy: 34(was going down because of allied ships in the Med now)  USA: 68.

We ended up rolling the dice for Moscow, assuming a 2 turn Soviet build of just infantry (10 a turn for 20 total, seemed a bit high) and a build of 6 tanks for two turns in Leningrad.  He ended up defending with 48(!) 2s.  We came out of it he had 4 art, 4 tanks, and 2 fighters left to my 3 tanks and bomber.  My point was that I didn't have to attack him right there as I was not sufficiently threatened by the US fleet.

Who do you guys think would have won?  I call it at tie at best, but opinion was against me, they all thought they were going to win by virtue of an Italy crush.  I though that I would have taken Russia eventually.  Did the Sea Lion build on turn 2 kill my chances of taking Moscow?  Could I have been there 2 turns earlier with the same force minus the 20 Russian infantry?  Please let me know.

[mikecool70]

So here's my after-action report for the game we finished tonight.  I was Germany and Italy vs. 3 allied players in Russia/France, UK, and USA.  I did my typical G1 craziness and beat down France and Yugoslavia.  Much to my surprise, the UK player did not build anything actually in the UK, let alone bring his fleet out to stop an invasion.  Italy got their fleet trashed, then managed to regroup and take Greece and eventually (on I2) Egypt.  G2 I built 7 transports and wiped his navy off the map with my air, G3 I invaded England and took it.  It was turn 4 before I ever devoted resources to Russia.  Meanwhile, Italy took THE ENTIRE MED and by turn 7 was raking in 34 bucks a turn... enough for a whole bunch of fighters and infantry.

Turn 4 I had a decision... built Navy to contest the USA or plow into the now very-formidable Russian front, I chose the latter (could have been a mistake).  With my 92 bucks on turn 4 I bought a whole lotta tanks and I did the minor in Yugoslavia-thing to get troops to Africa (like I needed it, should've just sent my navy down from England into the Med) and built up for the Russian campaign.  I ended up going north and hitting Leningrad with 17 tanks, 24 mechs, 10 artillery, and 4 inf.  It was at this point we ended the game.  The USA had built up his fleet enough to go to Gibraltar and kill the Italian fleet, and was sitting there with a sizable force.  There was 10 German infantry in France ready to hit any landing zone in Europe, 12 infantry and 2 fighters defending London, there were 10 infantry and 4 fighters and 3 tac bombers in Southern Italy ready to repel an invasion, Italy owned Iraq, Persia, and India, and I was two turns away from Moscow with no sense of urgency to attack.

 Final IPC count was Germany: 77  Russia: 23  Italy: 34(was going down because of allied ships in the Med now)  USA: 68.

We ended up rolling the dice for Moscow, assuming a 2 turn Soviet build of just infantry (10 a turn for 20 total, seemed a bit high) and a build of 6 tanks for two turns in Leningrad.  He ended up defending with 48(!) 2s.  We came out of it he had 4 art, 4 tanks, and 2 fighters left to my 3 tanks and bomber.  My point was that I didn't have to attack him right there as I was not sufficiently threatened by the US fleet.

Who do you guys think would have won?  I call it at tie at best, but opinion was against me, they all thought they were going to win by virtue of an Italy crush.  I though that I would have taken Russia eventually.  Did the Sea Lion build on turn 2 kill my chances of taking Moscow?  Could I have been there 2 turns earlier with the same force minus the 20 Russian infantry?  Please let me know.

It’s hard to say who would have won since you didn’t tell us exactly what the USA had sitting off of Gibraltar.  If I had to guess, I would say the Allies would have won.  They could easily take out Egypt, denying you two national objectives and then convoy raid the seazone next to Italy while using their transports to quickly capture Africa.  I’m also assuming they had fighters on aircraft carriers.  They could easily enough move their entire fleet to the eastern med and then land fighters in Russia to help the Soviet Union last longer while Italy’s economy eventually got down to zero.  Plus, with them dominating the Atlantic, there are just too many places they can attack with their transports.  You don’t mention what you had defending Norway; remember, if Germany loses Norway then it loses out on two national objectives.

[robbie358]

If he goes Norway instead of England, my forces in Leningrad hit him hard.  If he goes anywhere in France, my 10 infantry in France kick him out.  IF he goes for Italy I don't care because Italy is not trying to take Russia.  You honestly believe that Germany was going down just like that?  Why does Germany care about Africa again?   It's worth 5 bucks?  That was the differnece in the game?

[robbie358]

Oh, and also six transports in the Baltic ready to hit England or Norway with whatever I buy in West Germany.  Currently ferrying 6 tanks and 6 inf to Leningrad every turn.

[robbie358]

Oh, and to my knowledge he had 5 fully loaded transports (inf and art and tanks) 2 fully loaded carriers, 3 destroyers (counting the French), and a Battleship (damaged) off Gibraltar.  Southern Italy was going to be just fine for another 3 turns at least.  I had 5 fighters and 3 tacs to hit his navy if it went to Egypt, don't know if I had to make that attack, though.

[13thguardsriflediv]

Very poor allied players who allow that to happen.

[Tavenier]

Very poor allied players who allow that to happen.

My thoughts exactly.

How can Germany buy so many transports, take UK, seriously threaten Moscow, have taken Leningrad, have 10 inf in France and nothing threatening directly by allies and get away with it?

[Clyde85]

I think that you picked the worst possible time to stop playing your game!!!!  Seriously, the next 4 turns were gunna be epic! I would think the allies still have the upper hand, but it would really all come down to the dice.

If the allies make a push to clear out Africa and the Middle East, outside of sinking the Italian economy, It also clears the Russian southern flank, allowing the russians to funnel all its forces strait at you through Belarus and the Ukraine. If the allies hit Norway, they can clear the Russian northern flank, and similarly funnel evrything at you. I know you have forces in Lenningrad, but its 3 spaces away from Norway so an overland attack would take 2 turns to hit. Perhapse your transport fleet could hit them, but you've not mentioned what, if any, surface ships you have, so I cant really say. With an economy of 23 i'd say the Russians are far from sunk and can still fight and move offensively. Also, if the allies move to clear the northern flank of Russia, you'd be responding with troops from that front, which is so much the better for the Russians.

I think your biggest threat is if the allies clear out the mid-east/africa AND liberated Britian. Then you'd have a full economy UK gunning for you and adding its forces to the fray. Again, without knowing what you have for surface ships, I cant really comment on this either. Italy sounds pretty much sunk at this point thanks to the US fleet in the Med, which it dosnt sound like you have a counter to. So it would pretty much come down to you having to stop both the US and the Soviets, and possibly the UK, in which case I would say the allies had you, if there were no major screw ups on their side, and the dice play nice (which they so rarely do  )

[robbie358]

I had a carrier and 2 cruisers and a few subs with my six transports on the Baltic.  My point was that for the next 5 turns or so there was nothing directly threatening German soil.  If he went to the UK (which he would have had to do before going to Norway, or he would have been going 2 spaces the whole way), I still got a turn to try and retake it before the UK even collected money, let alone another turn before they could build anything there.  All I have to do is destroy the US ground forces that he puts in Norway, then swing those troops back to the attack on Russia.  That's 9 tanks and 6 infantry a turn for 4 turns plus a 6 tac bomber build to follow them all going into Russia by way of the factory in Leningrad and the transports in the Baltic.  He has to ACTUALLY take Berlin, where I can just spend my turns building 20 infantry until there are 60 infantry in Berlin while all those forces attack Moscow. 

[Clyde85]

How are you getting into Norway, its 3 spaces away from Leningrad, it would still take 2 turns for you to get to Norway overland from Leningrad? Unless your talking about using that baltic fleet, which by the way, is quite under-whelming, you cant simply march from Leningrad to norway in 1 turn.

I think you got lucky that the allies agreed to end the game when they did. That surface fleet is very week and a turn or so spent by the US building a dedicated fleet would have smashed it, and all your transport would be gone, allowing them free range to retake Britian and assault Norway, and by my understanding, it would be 2 turns that you could retake it from them, by marching overland, and pulling forces out of Russia.

[robbie358]

I don't know how they crush my fleet when they can't get into the Baltic...

[robbie358]

Also I had the British Major Complex, so I just build another 10 infantry to help the 12 that I had there.

[jim010]

You guys are high  .

Sealion breaks the game.

[calvinhobbesliker]

You guys are high  .

Sealion breaks the game.

No it doesn't

[Tavenier]

In all previous versions we played with the houserule that when a capital is taken the victim must pay the IPC value of that country to the conquerer, but keeps the rest and keeps getting income. Then the UK can still build in Canada, or somewhere.

With this version however, Germany needs the IPC from capturing Paris and France can't be allowed to keep building elsewhere (Normandy or a conquered neutral).

In our houserule a succesful sealion doens't mean the end of the allies. Here it does.