Naval Units with AA Ability

[trackmagic]

I have been working on some of my own house rules. One thing I was thinking about doing is making certain naval units have anti-air powers (like AA Guns). I was thinking of giving this power to the battleships for a few reasons:

1) I think they probably had more AA guns on them than any other ship (Does anybody know enough about WWII naval units to confirm this?)

2) With the new PAC40 rules a lot of people are having trouble justifying buying a BB instead of a DD and CG combo. I like seeing the battleships in the game so I want there to be a reason to buy them.

It probally makes sense to give this ability to several naval units, but I don't want to change the game dynamic too much so I was trying to keep it to 1 type of unit. What unit do you think should have this ability?

[Wilson2]

Idea stealer!!!  I already put this in my beta rules for consideration to be put in AA50: strategic. Lol jk

[Imperious Leader]

Actually AARHE was the first to use this idea. Back in 2004-5

Each ship has an anti-aircraft capability

Cruiser 3
Battleship 2
Destroyer 1
Carrier 2

Ships can either defend using normal combat values or roll one of these or less and the hit is scored on a plane.

Then i extrapolated the idea for Cruisers and Commander Jennifer incorrectly used the idea for Battleships, which historically didn't make sence. The other thing was Cruisers are too costly at 12, so to give them a natural AA capability @1 for the first round,and reduce the cost to 11 might balance the unit.

Battleships are balanced and don't need a AA, so its not only out of balance to have it but it is also not realistic

Cruisers didn't have the displacement for large guns. These are fast and long range escort ships. They became AA gun platforms because AA are light and they can keep up with Carriers, unlike Battleships.

Battleships are heavy duty battle units to engage other ships in surface combat. They have sufficient displacement for many larger guns and not so much for lots of little AA guns. Battleships need to be protected by escorts ( destroyers and cruisers).

Cruisers had the most AA guns on average ( as measured by tons and space) then any other unit. They were the best escorts for Carriers and Battleships because they had speed, so they got the AA guns.

Destroyers had mostly an Anti submarine role, but cruisers had this too. AARHE was also the first one to introduce cruisers and give them ASW capability at 1:1 basis, like Destroyers.

[Wilson2]

BB is already a better buy than a cruiser. To demonstrate, simply run a battle low luck 3 BBs vs 5 cruisers (same price). Even with the cruisers wining 2/3 of their rolls @3 1 battleship remains.

[Viracocha]

Cruiser... doesn't have a lot going for 'im... and they were known for it as well...

[Imperious Leader]

BB is already a better buy than a cruiser.

Thats obvious, and why the Cruiser should get the benefit because its overpriced and historically the most realistic choice for AA

[trackmagic]

Thanks for the insight. I'm easily convinced. I'm adding the CG has the AA ability to my rules.

I still might try to make the BB more powerful. For the same price as a BB you can get a CG and DD. (4HP for the BB compared to 5 for the CG DD combo). Not to mention the CG DD combo can hit 2X per round. AND now the CG will have AA ability. I'll put some thought into it and make another poll for a new BB ability.

I'm writing out an entire rule book. It is mostly copied from the OOB rules, but it has my own set of house rules implemented. When I am done I will share a Word file so people can download it and edit it to make their own rule books.

[Imperious Leader]

I'm adding the CA has the AA ability to my rules.


Just so you know. Each cruiser gets a free roll of 1 against each plane before the first combat round.

If you got 10 cruisers and one plane attacking ( who would do this?) you get 10 rolls.

Edit for clarity.

[Keredrex]

I'm adding the CA has the AA ability to my rules.


Just so you know. Each cruiser gets a free roll of 1 against each plane before the first combat round.

If you got 10 cruisers and 1 plane, your only rolling once.

does that mean 1 Cruiser Against 10 Planes gets 10 di rolls?
would not that be a bit overpowered, A Cruiser costs 12 Att=3, Def=3, And AA Ability hits on a 1

Also, since Normal AA guns seperate their Shots between fighters and bombers (AA Rolls for fighters 1st, Then Rolls for Bombers).  Does this happen with the Cruiser as well?

or do you mean its on a 1/1 ratio.  1 Cruiser can get an AA pop Shot on 1 Fighter

[Imperious Leader]

does that mean 1 Cruiser Against 10 Planes gets 10 di rolls?

NO one shot per cruiser. if you got three of them you get 3 rolls even if 50 planes attack

would not that be a bit overpowered, A Cruiser costs 12 Att=3, Def=3, And AA Ability hits on a 1

The CA with a AA would be 12.

Also, since Normal AA guns seperate their Shots between fighters and bombers (AA Rolls for fighters 1st, Then Rolls for Bombers).  Does this happen with the Cruiser as well?

yes right

do you mean its on a 1/1 ratio.  1 Cruiser can get an AA pop Shot on 1 Fighter

yes

[Keredrex]

With these rules do Cruisers still get to Bombard in Amp Assaults?.

 Im trying to see why A Battleship is a better buy than Cruiser (CA) & Destroyer (DD) Combo.
20 IPC's gets you either...
Battleship - 2 Hits, Att 4, Def 4, Bombardment… Or
Cruiser - Att 3, Def 3, AA 1 (1/1 Ratio), & Bombardment
& Destroyer - Att 2, Def 2, Anti Sub Abilities

Buying 2 boats gives you the same 2 Dmg hits, Gives you a 5 on Att & Def (in 2 di rolls), but weaker bombardment

Personally I love Battleships but im thinking they needed more.
So in the A&A Spring 1942.  we play with these house rules...
Capitol ships (BB & CV) are Repaired After A Full Turn (all 5 countries) Dmg is marked with the country flag of the current Attacking country.

Also, in Amp. Assaults
If A Battleship Bombards... the Unit Does NOT Defend
If A Cruiser Bombards... The Unit Does Defend

What do you think?

[Imperious Leader]

No other changes to the units. They still get SB

The BB is better than a cruiser mostly because of the free hit and hit and run tactics, because the BB can repair damage.

When you factor in groups of destroyers with both, the BB still comes out better

If you compare the DD alone with BB, the DD win ( for the most part)

NO need to alter the SB capability from OOB rules.

[calvinhobbesliker]

With these rules do Cruisers still get to Bombard in Amp Assaults?.

 Im trying to see why A Battleship is a better buy than Cruiser (CA) & Destroyer (DD) Combo.
20 IPC's gets you either...
Battleship - 2 Hits, Att 4, Def 4, Bombardment… Or
Cruiser - Att 3, Def 3, AA 1 (1/1 Ratio), & Bombardment
& Destroyer - Att 2, Def 2, Anti Sub Abilities

Buying 2 boats gives you the same 2 Dmg hits, Gives you a 5 on Att & Def (in 2 di rolls), but weaker bombardment

Personally I love Battleships but im thinking they needed more.
So in the A&A Spring 1942.  we play with these house rules...
Capitol ships (BB & CV) are Repaired After A Full Turn (all 5 countries) Dmg is marked with the country flag of the current Attacking country.

Also, in Amp. Assaults
If A Battleship Bombards... the Unit Does NOT Defend
If A Cruiser Bombards... The Unit Does Defend

What do you think?

Both ships' bombardment allows them to defend

[Keredrex]

....Also, in Amp. Assaults
If A Battleship Bombards... the Unit Does NOT Defend
If A Cruiser Bombards... The Unit Does Defend

Both ships' bombardment allows them to defend

Yeah I know the OOB rules.. these are our House rules. it works well, makes Battleships a bit more menacing

When you factor in groups of destroyers with both, the BB still comes out better
If you compare the DD alone with BB, the DD win ( for the most part)

not sure what you mean by this??

[Imperious Leader]

If you plug them into a combat simulation ( online) the odds give you these results.