• Please post thoughts and ideas for adding China to the regular A&A game.


  • I guess you could add China to the regular game but with only 2 areas to start with its life span in game may be cut short.

    The map would have to be modified. Maybe cut each area into 3 thus giving the Chinese player 6 areas to start with. Make each area worth one or two points each. Make the captial area worth 3 or 4.

    Allow the Chinese player to build only infantry.

    However you could let other countries donate other items like in A&A Europe. No ships though. Well maybe transports.

    Anybody else want to add any input??


  • How about giving China the following territories:

    1. China (of course) - raise IPC value to 4
    2. French Indo-China Burma - IPC value of 3
    3. Sinkiang - raise IPC value to 3
    4. Add Mongolia - IPC value of 2

    Could also alter Japan’s territories to make up for the lost IPC’s … something like the following:

    1. Change IPC value of Manchuria to 4
    2. Change IPC value of New Guinea to 2
    3. Change IPC value of Borneo Celebes to 2
    4. Change IPC value of Solomon Islands to 1
    5. Change IPC value of Caroline Islands to 1
    6. Change IPC value of Wake Island to 1

    Comments?

  • 2007 AAR League

    Sounds good. But, on East and West, China is a full country in the game, even though it starts out neutrally. You can get the full map of East and West at www.impgames.com. It’s copyrighted, but you can kinda get the idea what it looks like 8) .


  • Good Idea MistaBiggs.

    But I don’t recall the French Indo-China area belonging to the Chinese.
    Japan controled most of the area in 1942 so I would leave it to Japan.


  • @waraxis:

    Good Idea MistaBiggs.

    But I don’t recall the French Indo-China area belonging to the Chinese.
    Japan controled most of the area in 1942 so I would leave it to Japan.

    It is true that Japan quickly gained control of Northern French Indo-China (September 1940); however, the Burma Road or through French Indochina was a key supply route for China early in the war. Burma was the last coastal territory to be taken by Japan. Burma was not under Japanese controll until late May of 1942. So, technically - it would be alright to give Burma to China … especially if the starting period of this modified game was prior to 1942.

    I am more concerned with giving the Chinese a fighting chance to survive and I’m not sure what else can be done to assist this.


  • I say flip a coin heads China tails Japan.

    Would shake up the game I bet not to know who would get it until right at the start??


  • I dunno… with China in the game it could throw off the Axis too much. If China can delay Japan for a couple of turns, it could ruin the Axis game since Germany is without any relief. However, if it’s too easy to take, Japan gets an even greater economic boost.

    Ah, the balance…


  • @MistaBiggs:

    How about giving China the following territories:

    1. China (of course) - raise IPC value to 4
    2. French Indo-China Burma - IPC value of 3
    3. Sinkiang - raise IPC value to 3
    4. Add Mongolia - IPC value of 2

    Could also alter Japan’s territories to make up for the lost IPC’s … something like the following:

    1. Change IPC value of Manchuria to 4
    2. Change IPC value of New Guinea to 2
    3. Change IPC value of Borneo Celebes to 2
    4. Change IPC value of Solomon Islands to 1
    5. Change IPC value of Caroline Islands to 1
    6. Change IPC value of Wake Island to 1

    Comments?

    There’s one problem with this that I can see. The Democratic Republic of Mongolia was part of the Comintern and allied to the USSR, not to China even after the communists took over China. I would add Chongquing, Chiang Kai-Shek’s capital, in between Sinkiang and China to make attacking the capital difficult. I can come up with an altered map, if you like.


  • Well … by adding Mongolia to China (versus neutral) – I was just trying to give the Chinese another territory (IPC’s) to give them a better chance of survival. Really … my main concern wasn’t to be 100% accurate and I didn’t want to split up or add new territories.


  • Maybe you could set up another PBEM game to test it out. Force Japan to play the Pacific more as a naval power. :)


  • the problem of adding china is that china was split into the nationalists and the communists, making enemys to each other, if china is added the commies would have to be russia and the nationalists would have to be the US, which might cause some bad relations between russia and the US,

    china would probaly be boring to play since they would be economically inferior to japan, also if china is added, they would probaly not be that powerful because after 10 years of war between japan and china, 20,000,000 chinese were killed.


  • Yeah, the main problem I see with China is that you’re basically limited to inf, which sometimes isn’t very fun to do.

  • Moderator

    maybe you’ll have to combine china and us…just with different Production


  • @Zhukov_2003:

    the problem of adding china is that china was split into the nationalists and the communists, making enemys to each other, if china is added the commies would have to be russia and the nationalists would have to be the US, which might cause some bad relations between russia and the US,

    china would probaly be boring to play since they would be economically inferior to japan, also if china is added, they would probaly not be that powerful because after 10 years of war between japan and china, 20,000,000 chinese were killed.

    Yet China still have over a billion people so 20 million for them was not a lot. Also, the Chinese presented a united front against the Communists during World War 2 so they would not have to be split. The USSR did not give aid to the Communists. In fact, Stalin signed a Treaty with Chiang Kai-shek.


  • maybe you’ll have to combine china and us…just with different Production

    Interest. Please explain better in detail.


  • @Zhukov_2003:

    the problem of adding china is that china was split into the nationalists and the communists, making enemys to each other

    This is somewhat true … China did have somewhat of a mini-civil war or revolution going on, but this was minimal … as both the Nationalists (majority) and the Communists (minority) were in agreeance as to war with Japan. There were (somewhat) minimal skirmishes between the Communists and Nationalists during WWII, but mostly Japan was the common enemy.

  • Moderator

    @MistaBiggs:

    @Zhukov_2003:

    the problem of adding china is that china was split into the nationalists and the communists, making enemys to each other

    This is somewhat true … China did have somewhat of a mini-civil war or revolution going on, but this was minimal … as both the Nationalists (majority) and the Communists (minority) were in agreeance as to war with Japan. There were (somewhat) minimal skirmishes between the Communists and Nationalists during WWII, but mostly Japan was the common enemy.

    and I get scoffed at for being Historical :wink: :roll: :P :-? :x :lol:


  • @MistaBiggs:

    @Zhukov_2003:

    the problem of adding china is that china was split into the nationalists and the communists, making enemys to each other

    This is somewhat true … China did have somewhat of a mini-civil war or revolution going on, but this was minimal … as both the Nationalists (majority) and the Communists (minority) were in agreeance as to war with Japan. There were (somewhat) minimal skirmishes between the Communists and Nationalists during WWII, but mostly Japan was the common enemy.

    Japan understood the Major/Minor role on the commie side. The Nationalists were concentrated and organized. The nationalists also had marginally better equipment. They also wanted to keep the invaded country fragmented. The commies were scattered and dispersed. They were not considered a threat. So when offensive operations were planed by the Manchurian Expeditionary Forces, the target was Always the Nationalists.

    Japanese held lands were purged of nationalists. Land more than 5 mi from the transit infrastructure was not worth the bother. The few towns at transit junctions were well garrisoned. The commies did manage successful infiltration into the Japanese held territories among the gaps of this protective transit infrastructure. There was a power vacuum in the gaps that did not want Japanese rule. There they recruited for local guerrilla units. The commie units may have had only one uniform for the recruiter. The rest wore normal clothes. They started out lacking most modern arms. So attacks were against small patrols, recons, and supply caravans of either side. Understaffed garrisons would be overrun before dawn. The early assaults were plain banditry, the nationalists were often targeted because they were not trained as well as the Japs, but their equipment was an upgrade from the kitchen knives and 18th century gear most commie units had. These were to build up the weapons base needed for the later assaults.

    The Japanese war machine rolled easily vs the Nationalists until they blew up a series of dams and flooded over 100 million acres of farmland plains. This halted the Japanese offensive for almost a year, enough time for the Nationalists to fortify Chung King w/ AA guns and heavy artillery. By 1943, the War in China was a stalemate set in the valleys around Chung King. The Japanese had a land surplus and not enough troops to occupy it. The troops used to pacify the land limited the ground offensives into the fortified mountains and hills, where their armor was not as mobile. Air raids were no longer effective then.

    It would be hard to reflect all of that within the framework of A & A.
    Apparently, the game designers must have figured that it would be easier to deemphasize it.

    You would need a hex map type game to get more accuracy on terrain, supply, training, equipment, and the political effects.


  • GREATER CHINA

    China
    Neither the US or UK collect IP from any of the territories of Greater China (China, Sinkiang, Manchuria, and Kwangtung), unless Greater China has first been defeated.

    Greater China consists of the territories of Manchukuo, Kwangtung, China, and Sinkiang. Lesser China consists of the territory of French Indo-China/Burma. Manchukuo, Kwangtung, and French Indo-China/Burma are Japanese controlled at the start of the game, and China and Sinkiang are Chinese (US) controlled.

    Chinese War Aims
    Chinese units may not operate or move out of the territories of Greater and Lesser China, except that Chinese bombers and their fighter escorts may perform strategic bombing on Japan.

    Chinese Army’s Ineffectiveness
    FIVE Chinese infantry are required to make ONE round of combat, hitting on rolls of 1. Chinese infantry defend normally (each unit rolling 2 or less on defense).

    The Chinese Air Force
    The fighter that begins in China represents US fighters with US volunteer pilots. During Returning Air Movement, US and UK (but not USSR) air units that have not moved or participated in combat that player turn may fly to Greater or Lesser China and be converted to Chinese air units. UK air units are immediately replaced with US (representing Chinese) air units. Chinese air units may support attacks on Axis units within Greater and Lesser China. Chinese bombers and fighter escorts may conduct strategic bombing raids on Japan. Chinese air units may not land outside of Greater or Lesser China, nor may they be returned to the US or UK, unless Greater China is defeated.

    Chinese Sovereignty in Greater China
    No UK or US units (except air units being transferred to the Chinese Air Force) may enter the territories of Greater China, unless Greater China has been defeated. USSR units may attack Axis-controlled territories of Greater China once the USSR and Japan are at war, but they may not enter or over-fly Chinese-controlled territory. Any Greater Chinese territory ‘‘liberated’’ by the USSR from the Axis becomes USSR-controlled under the Bolshevization rule.

    Defeating Greater China
    Greater China is defeated when all of the territories of Greater China are captured. Greater China is then permanently eliminated from the game, remaining Chinese infantry units are removed, Chinese air units revert to US control, and all rules pertaining to Greater China are suspended.

    The Elusive Chinese Army
    The Axis player is limited to one combat round when attacking Chinese units in China or Sinkiang (but not in Kwangtung, Manchuria, or French Indo-China). After one combat round, Axis units must retreat if any Chinese units survive.

    Chinese Army Reinforcements
    During the Place New Units Action Sequence of the US turn, each territory of Greater China that was Chinese-controlled at the beginning of the player’s turn receives a number of infantry equal to its IP value. These units are Chinese infantry.

    Lesser China
    Chinese, UK, and US units may attack Axis units in Lesser China and occupy this territory at the same time. (“Chinese” and US infantry must be kept distinct, due to their different combat abilities.)

    did somebody say china?

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