• This game has a new and improved system of SBR.

    1. Attacker commit fighters as escort, and defender commit fighters as interceptors.
    2. One round of dogfight. Escorts attack on 1, and interceptors defend on 2 or less. Bombers dont roll dice, but may be taken as casualties.

    This is a nice reenactment of the historical dogfights for air superiority. The old system where the defending AA-guns shot down the escort fighters before they got in combat, was pretty much flawn.

    3. Attacking strategig bombers that survived the initial air-to-air fight, do now pick a facility as target.
    Bombers may choose to attack any factories, ports or airfields that are present in this territory.
    4. The faciliti roll AA-dice to each bomber that are attacking, pretty much the standard system.
    5. Surviving bombers roll dice.

    This was a great improvement to the old system, thank you Larry


  • Razortag, Wild Bill thinks he might like new SBR too!  He not sure, because attacker could end up losing more then the target in the end. Time will tell, WB can’t wait to test it out.

  • Customizer

    I think i will like this…

    i am a little concerned though that defending fighters will be twice as powerful as escorting ones…
    for countries that are a single territory (like japan) this may mean you will not be seeing much or any SBR against them until the game is already won…  and i kind of like sbring before the game is won


  • But the fighters involved in defense of a SBR can’t attack right? If so, that could be very interesting with Germany. How many Fighter can she keep on her IC to protect it?

    Robert


  • Fighters involved in defense of SBR “cant participate in further combat this round”

    Think of it like this……
    The fighter cant participate in BOTH the defense from SBR AND the defense of the territory from traditonal attack

    A better way to think about this is…a fighter can not participate in more than one defense in one turn

    it can still attack during your turn


  • So say i had 2 fighters in Germany and the British were running a SBR with 3 fighters and 2 bombers.

    Do the British escorting aircraft have to kill the enemy planes before the bombers can continue their run, and attempt to pass through the respective AA fire?

    Say the British player attacks with his fighters,no hits. The German interceptors score 2 hits,so does the British player lose 2 fighters and can then decide to retreat without further losses?


  • This rule will make the game way better.


  • Quick question : can allied fighters participate in the defense of a bombed IC?

    Yes, this rule is quite interesting. This could help Germany and Italy alot, but at the same time, it forces them to keep fighters on their territories

    Robert


  • I don’t like the escort rules. All you need is the old rules where the AA gun fires at each plane and that is it.

    Take the previous example. 2 defending fighters, 3 escorts and 2 bombers. On average the bombers will do 3.5 damage each. So if the defending fighters just get 1 hit you lose a 10ipc fighter in exchange for 7 damage points which can repair the damage for 7 ipcs. On top of that the AA guns get a chance again to shoot down your bombers. No, this is a very very flawed system. It is completely unnecessary, and IMO a SBR is like playing Blackjack at the casino….the house always has the advantage. I will play without the escort rules and use only AA guns.


  • The old rule sucks. It’s practically a free pass to take away your IPC’s

  • Official Q&A

    @Omega:

    Quick question : can allied fighters participate in the defense of a bombed IC?

    Yes.


  • @Krieghund:

    @Omega:

    Quick question : can allied fighters participate in the defense of a bombed IC?

    Yes.

    The intercept part of the escort/intercept rule.


  • I don’t like the rule about 20 IPC max damage on a major, with 6 max on a minor

    I would rather have 3 minors with 9 units placed and a 18 IPC cap and 3 times the AA gun firepower potentially vs one big target placing 10 units but getting 20 IPC damaged. Spread out the attackers and have them attack three different targets seems a better tactic.


  • but sometimes, you need those 10 productions points!! Also, 3 minor, although less expensive to repair, could be spread around the map. Which leads to some sort of disadvantage. Of course, being spread around the map is also good. Having a germany IC in Africa, for example, could very well help Italy

    Robert


  • @Brain:

    The old rule sucks. It’s practically a free pass to take away your IPC’s

    Bombers are a very effective weapon. If you are going to bomb an industrial site you are going to do some damage. The Antiaircraft and defending fighter planes will never take out all the bombers. A bomber in this game represents a large amount of aircraft. Besides that “free pass” does very little damage unless we are talking about 4 or more bombers.

    Am I really the only one here that thinks this new system is completely unrealistic. It was only added for more complexity to appease the diehards. I think the AA gun represents both the fighter defenses and the AA fire very well. I don’t have to see a fighter going after a bomber to feel like it is more real. This new system does make the risk outweigh the reward. I would love to see someone do an SBR on me if I have a couple fighters with my complex.


  • but escorts are not affected by AA (I haven’t read the rules to be honest, waiting for the game)

    so if the other player send ALOT of plane to protect the bombers, are you going to try to put up a fight? Germany can’t hold all her planes in Germany… They are needed against Russia, to defend France (I’m assuming that Germany will only keep inf + fig stack in France)

    You know, the Fig escort/interceptor thing could become another battleground. A country like USA could be busy building up a fleet. Meanwhile, he could send bombers + fig to SBR Europe. Even if defending interceptor hit better, if the attacker has a large amount of escort, this can become very tricky. Does Germany want to risk losing fighter in the defense of his IC?

    Of course, its all theorical. Will need to play some game before being able to put up any conclusions on whether it is good or not


  • Razor think it is optional for the defender to commit interceptors. If you dont want to give extra protection to your factory, or port, or airfield, then just dont do it. Let the facility’s AA-gun defend the facility. Nobody force you to commit interceptors. It is the defender’s decision.

    Razor also urge you to take in account that the dogfight between escorts and interceptors are one round only. And after this one round, all fighters retreat from combat. No escort fighters will be exposed to AA-fire.

    If the defender commit 2 interceptors, that defend on 2 or less, it is not very likely they will hit anything.
    In this case the attacker may commit 1 escort just to absorb a possible hit, so his bomber get through.

    If your territory are both attacked and SBR’ed at the same time, it is better use of the fighters to defend on 4 or less in multiple rounds, than defend on 2 or less for one round. Butt Razor not sure, must figure.


  • @Omega:

    but escorts are not affected by AA (I haven’t read the rules to be honest, waiting for the game)

    so if the other player send ALOT of plane to protect the bombers, are you going to try to put up a fight? Germany can’t hold all her planes in Germany… They are needed against Russia, to defend France (I’m assuming that Germany will only keep inf + fig stack in France)

    You know, the Fig escort/interceptor thing could become another battleground. A country like USA could be busy building up a fleet. Meanwhile, he could send bombers + fig to SBR Europe. Even if defending interceptor hit better, if the attacker has a large amount of escort, this can become very tricky. Does Germany want to risk losing fighter in the defense of his IC?

    Of course, its all theorical. Will need to play some game before being able to put up any conclusions on whether it is good or not

    My point is if you lose even 1 escort fighter the SBR was a loss IPC wise to you. With Defenders rolling a 2 for a hit that is too much risk. Unless of course you are throwing double the amount of escort fighters against the defending fighters then the odds are even because you can now destroy a 10ipc fighter as well. But lets face it you are not going to be wasting valuable fighter planes on a less valuable SBR when you can you can use it for more valuble missions destroying units during regular combat. You get 1 roll per SBR at 1 to hit compared to multiple rolls during regular combat at 3 to hit.


  • @Krupp:

    So say i had 2 fighters in Germany and the British were running a SBR with 3 fighters and 2 bombers.

    Do the British escorting aircraft have to kill the enemy planes before the bombers can continue their run, and attempt to pass through the respective AA fire?

    Say the British player attacks with his fighters,no hits. The German interceptors score 2 hits,so does the British player lose 2 fighters and can then decide to retreat without further losses?

    Actually it is Kevins job to answer, butt since you will give Razor + karma, I’ll do it.

    Remember one round of combat. Three brit escorts roll 3 dice, no hits. Two german interceptors roll 2 dice, both hits. End of dogfight. All surviving fighters retreat. All surviving bombers continue to SBR.


  • @Flying:

    My point is if you lose even 1 escort fighter the SBR was a loss IPC wise to you. With Defenders rolling a 2 for a hit that is too much risk.

    Who says the target facility is a factory ? Perhaps you want to destroy a port or an airfield, in order to deny your enemy to repair his two damaged battleships, or deny him to launch paratroopers in his next turn, or you want to attack his fleet and dont want his fighters on the adjacent island to join. Razor can think of lots of stratecig situations where he will be happy to sacrifice a 10 IPC fighter to a bigger cause.

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