Operation Sealion a Possibility with AA1940 Europe?

[LuckyDay]

I think at some point, sooner or later, that Hitler would have moved Nazi troops ashore of UK with a treaty.  Though he felt some connection with the two countries backgrounds he still would have wanted his influence felt there and had UK signed a peace treaty he would have pushed it to be to his favor.

Then with the coming attack on the US that he planned for after taking Europe and Russia he would have needed the room for long range air bases in UK, then Iceland, Azores, Greenland and so on.

(try UK without its major Capitol tell me how fun THAT goes for you)

In my experience, if my capital gets knocked out, I find the game a lot more enjoyable to still have something and help, than to have absolutely nothing that I get with the OOB rules regarding capital capture.

[SgtBlitz]

Yeah, Hitler brought in the whole wacky superior Aryan-race thing with England over and over again, trying to negotiate some "separate peace between the two Aryan brother nations", and no one but the Nazis and maybe a few pro-Fascist English politicians ever believed in it (no surprise, it was an insane idea to base peace on).  This was even kept up until after Dunkirk and the beginning of the Battle of Britain.  The best thing about the character of Winston Churchill was that he was the first leader to stop negotiating with the Nazis and actually be able to fight back in kind.  When England and Germany started SBRing each other's civilian populations all talk of separate peace with England was dropped in Nazi circles.

Rudolf Hess, Hitler's Deputy of the Nazi Party, actually stole a plane in June 1941 and ditched it in Scotland to try to negotiate a separate peace, he believed in it so much.  Of course he was delusional, as by 1941 the war was pretty much well on and too many people had been killed/property damaged to call the whole thing off.  Some people think that he attempted this even though he knew it wouldn't work since he knew the Germans were about to invade Russia and he wanted Germany to avoid a two-front war.  Of course, his claim that Germany was about to invade Russia was completely ignored by the Russian govt. since Stalin was nuts too.

How did all these crazy people in the 1940's become world leaders!?!  Or maybe we see them as crazy people since their actions are magnified as leaders?  Definitely shows that humanity is flawed.  And that world leaders should be the ones we put to the magnifying glass the most...  Some people say that democracy doesn't elect the best leaders of a population since most voters pick on a compromise candidate to begin with...  Hell, who would want to be a leader to begin with, all the crazy people out there you are forced to deal with!  Most likely everyone's crazy on some level.

So, invading England with Sea Lion in Axis and Allies doesn't work...  Can we make an optional rule to attempt to negotiate peace by spending 5 IPCs a turn on diplomacy, and on a "6", gain a cease fire for a few turns?  LOL NO NO NO that's NOT how you play A+A.  NOT EVEN GONNA HAPPEN.

[Brain Damaged]

Ditch the rule about surrendering your ipc's when your capitol is captured and fight on.

[idk_iam_swiss]

Thats how me and my family play. Its a LOT harder for the Island nations though. Like Japan and Britian.

[Brain Damaged]

By the time they only have their island left their economy is very small and your economy should be very large. Just keep buying battleships and conduct one amphibious assaut each turn with one infantry. You will destroy many of his defenses with all your shore bambardment and only lose 1 infantry. It is the quickest and easiest way to finish them off.

[Omega]

Except that you can only bombard once for each unit being sent. Meaning that for each ground unit, you get 1 shore bombardment.

[idk_iam_swiss]

yeah, but you can do the new punch manuver, buy cruisers, and troops. Cruisers make offshore bombardment soooo much easier.

[Brain Damaged]

Except that you can only bombard once for each unit being sent. Meaning that for each ground unit, you get 1 shore bombardment.

I am still playing the original game. If that is a new rule then just bring in some extra cheap infantry.

[maverick_76]

Ah, memories of the original....I haven't played that in years. I think it would be hard to go back to that after AAE and AAP, they really add some new dimensions to the game.

[Brain Damaged]

They're all good.

[Twigley]

no, france didn't start them, it was that they couldn't win them...

why do americans dislike the french?  why is it that no one asks why the french dislike americans?  Americans are thankful for the french aide in their revolution, twas invaluable.  Nowadays, the americans are often made to feel that the rest of the world dislikes them, especially the french...   perhaps the americans are hurt that after all they did to save france from communism that they felt slighted that they have to pay to rent the land that was used for cemeteries for the soldiers fallen at Dday....?

of course, if you look at how Russia got a 6 month headstart getting into the war and it is 6000 km from washington dc to berlin as compared to 1400 km from moscow to berlin, and still russia only made it to berlin first by a matter of days... 

Well, in fact, USSR (not Russia) could had arrived a couple of months before, maybe even more. But Stalin wanted ensure soviet influence sphere on Balkans and eastern Europe,

and Patton couldn't have gotten there months earlier had Montgomery not gotten all of his supplies used in Market Garden...  it would have to be alot more than 6 months to make up the difference in the 3000+ kilometers...

War in Europe was won before D-Day (soviets would win anyway alone at that date), that's credit for soviets. But D-Day saved France from stalinism, that's credit for USA & UK

War in Europe was far from over before Dday as a win for the Soviets.  Had Germany not had a Western Front, they could have utilized it's factories at full capacity without American/UK bombing and resources would have headed to the East without pause.  The American supplied Soviets would have been pounded to dust even with Hitler's neurotic commands (which would have been lessened by the lack of the Western Front).  Credit the Soviets for sucking American supply lines.

Switzerland was not impassible in ways similar to the Himalayas or the Sahara, and for those reasons I don't see any reason it shouldn't be as playable as Spain or Sweden...

I don't think they meant without US/UK aid - but I do think that by D-Day the Soviets had the game in the bag. Aided by SBRs from the western allies yes - but the land invasion of France did nothing but distract an already mortally wounded Germany. If the western allies had continued their aerial attacks - but not invaded Russia would still have won.

In fact - if in 1944 the US and UK had made peace with Germany - I think Russia would still have won. Germany had lost too much by then to be replaced. Not in terms of equipment - which German factories produced in large amounts but in terms of the loss of people; both Army groups south and centre - over 2/3 of their fighting forces - and the remaining third - battered and broken and trying to plug holes which were spread over 100's of miles of  front.

I mean, don't get me wrong - I'm a brit. But to say that the Russians NEEDED us to invade France in 1944 is wishful thinking. They were begging us to in 1942 - and we didn't. Then arguably it may have made a difference.

Please note: I am NOT saying the Russians won WWII in europe without the western allies. Just that by 1944 they could have.

The UK/US liberated France - because by 1944 they were already preparing for the Cold War. To pretend it was out of 'honour' or 'commitment' is fanciful.

[idk_iam_swiss]

Why did The US/UK liberate france then? if Russia could have done it by itself?

[WILD BILL]

UK/US liberated France, and Invaded Italy & W. Germany to keep Russia out. They new that the new fight was going to be against Communism. Unfortunately they dropped the ball when it came to China.

[idk_iam_swiss]

america and china are allies though

[WILD BILL]

Besides fighting against Japan, China was in the middle of a civil war. The Nationalist (KMT) and the Communist (CCP). The US supported the KMT with a ton of military equipment including the flying tigers through the lend lease program in WWII. The conflict took quite a toll on the KMT and left them weaker, as much of the fighting against Japan was done in KMT territory. The CCP communist grew in size and strength. Ultimately the CCP took over after the war with influence from Russia. The KMT fled mainland China to Taiwan were it still governs. I don't really know if the US could have stopped the communist take over but it does seem like we abandoned an ally. Today we have a lot of ties with China but most of that is recent development over the last 20 years. Imagine if China was more democratic. There is also that fear of China siding with the North Koreans in an Asian conflict. I would think that China would have to much to lose economically, but who knows stranger things have happened.

Sorry got way off topic.