Germany must ALWAYS build IC to win game in Anniversary?

[SgtBlitz]

Just thinking about this, considering the new rules to SBRs, where they end up limiting production to the ICs they hit, it seems Axis MUST increase its production capacity or end up building sub-optimal (i.e., not infantry) units from their starting factories.  (For Japan this issue is a non-starter, since they usually build in India or East Indies anyway, question is WHEN).  Germany can earn up to 53 ipcs with NOs from a good G1 start and there's simply NO WAY they can turn all of those IPCs into units with the limited 10 production base from the capital.  If you don't turn that extra money into another factory its just going to be gobbled up in SBR damage on germany; whereas an IC in France or Poland can spread the damage around a bit, especially when you're not required to repair the factories which was a necessary part of Revised.

Most of the games where I've seen Germany/Axis win they either went all tanks with the 50+ipc income and Britain and the US didn't do a damn thing to stop them in Europe (seriously, that game went to Round 4 with Germany building all tanks every round, sending everything east, and NO European invasion by bad US/Britain play), OR they built a factory in France or Poland that allowed them to turtle with inf to victory by Round 6-7 with Japan taking Russia.  Some people would argue that building another IC helps the Allies by giving them potentially a lot more IPCs to destroy through SBRs, but I haven't seen a victorious entire-game-SBR-campaign yet.  Only time SBR really helps is when you're trying to finish an opponent off, (OR YOU HAVE ROLLED HBs) and they have no other options except to repair the capital factories.

[dondoolee]

I don't like the idea of spending 1/2 of my T1 income on a unit that doesn't move/attack/defend and is subject to "free SBR's" (unless of course you wish to spend ANOTHER 5 IPC's on an AA T1).  The math at first glance doesn't add up.  However, if one gets a good G1 turn and the UK fleet is completley dead and the UK fig on Egy is dead as well, anything is possible I suppose.

[Butcher]

53 IPC's can be achieved on G2 or G3 fairly often. It's just a matter of using the income for a factory to turtle or buying air. Some of the best Axis games I have had are where Germany builds 1 aircraft when their income is in the 40's and 2 when it is in the 50's. This will force the Allies to build more warships and less transports, delaying a large landing. After aircraft, the build is a mix of infantry and tanks.

[SgtBlitz]

Meh, I just don't like the thought of sending bombers and fighters to their certain doom attacking UK/US fleets.  It is certainly more viable in AA50 than in revised when all you needed were transport stacks to defend fleets, but it still hurts when you lose all your starting air force.  Much rather build a few subs or land the fighters on japanese or italian carriers and let the allies knock those fleets out, sub fodder hits for the win.

[Corbeau Blanc]

SgtBlitz, your pretty much spot on this one.

Increasing Germany production really helps win the game.I favor like many the France IC. Besides, you can still have the planes to keep allies on their toes. 1 plane and 14 infantry is around 52 ipc. By round 6-7 you should have hordes of infantry backed up by a strong aviation.

Problem for me is that it makes for long and boring games. I been aiming lately at faster campaigns even if it means a bit more risk since most players I go against are conservative ones. This shakes them to the core as they xpect you to think like them in terms of 100% safe battles. I say any battle above 75% odds should be taken or you'll drown in a 12 hours game

[axis_roll]

Now we're getting into discussions of playing style.

Some like a faster push, some prefer the more conservative method.

I advocate a safer Germany (READ IC somewhere) mainly because it is much easier for the allies to triple team Germany, much more difficult to pressure Japan with more than USA.

Everyone knows that 3 is > 2, so the allies can be more productive going after Germany.  Question is how much aid should USA to Europe?  Japan does need SOME pressure.... but I am getting off topic.

Count me in as a German IC advocate.

[Veqryn]

Germany starts at 31 ipcs on turn 1, peaks at around 55 on turn 3, and then slowly goes back down to 31 by turn 6 again.
buying 10 tanks = 50 ipcs. 
For turns 3, maybe 4, maybe maybe 5, you will control Karelia, which gets you another 2 production slots, so...
buying 12 tanks = 60 ipcs
buying 4 inf, 1 art, 6 tanks, 1 fighter = 56 ipcs
If you have extra, maybe buy a fighter or roll for tech.  Rolling for tech is always nice, and fighters get beastly defensive rolls for later when you have to defend.

I consider buying an IC as Germany to be very sub-optimal play.  12 production slots is plenty, and you should not ever have any more than 55 ipcs.  If you do have more than 55, that means you are winning already, and buying an IC becomes a "win-more" option, and therefore irrelevant.

[Butcher]

@SgtBlitz

I only send German air against Allied navies if I know I can win with at least a few aircraft left, or if I'm desparate. Normally, I use fighters to defend France, and move them if needed, and I use bombers to trade territory with Russia. By building aircraft, you are building a multipurpose unit to force the Allies to build a specialized unit.

However, I have won with a Bulgaria IC before, so I have nothing against building an IC. I just don't think it is necessary.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

I prefer to take one of Russia's.  If you put an IC up, the allies will bomb you into bankruptcy.  If you take one, then the allies probably cannot afford to bomb you into bankruptcy.

Meanwhile, build bombers and fighters.  I've yet to have a turn where I built less than 5 infantry in Germany in any given turn because I had too much money. 

[bugoo]

Depending on the # of enemy transports sunk, usually 2 or more, I will gladly trade planes for more expensive boats, esp if there cruisers or battleships!

[dondoolee]

Curious for those who advocate a French IPC; what do you expect the total AVG defense of units purchased, the total AVG offense of units purchased, and the total AVG units produced for T1-T5?  To make this easier, pretend the Allies are not SBRing you.

[Omega]

You need 48 ipc to max France and Germany IC. (just infantry)

In my opinion, this is hardly achieved, when you consider the fact that Allies can bomb you. I think Germany is better without that second IC. He should always consider taking one from Russia. If you are to build a second IC turn one, I think it's safe to say that the German player is going to play defensive all game, hoping Japan would end the game

Robert

[Corbeau Blanc]

Being conservative and considering sinking UK's fleet.

Germany
T1-  31ipc  IC, AA gun - 1 fighter    
T2 - 50ipc  13 infantry - 1 fighter
T3-  55ipc  15inf - 1 fighter
T4-  50ipc  13inf - 1 bomber
T5-  45ipc  15 inf

Italy
T1- 10ipc  1 fighter
T2- 15ipc  5 inf
T3- 20ipc  5inf (5ipc)
T4- 20ipc  5inf 1 fighter
T5- 15ipc  5inf

Uk can only build 8 units a turn.
In my experience, Germany income gets higher than that if well played and you should be able to max out prod at least 2-3 turns.

[bugoo]

If you don't build ground units G1 your income will not get that high against a half decent allied player.  They can and will stack Karelia with the 2 UK figs / 1 US bomber and everything russia can get there.  So sure, take it on G2 and loose nearly every unit you have left on the board.  Allied players that are going KGF and just give up Karalia on turn 2 are being foolish, esp if germany will not have any more units coming at them until turn 4 at the earliest because she bought an IC.

If you want to threaten the allied navy all you must do is build a plane a turn, or 2 if you can afford it.  Also, German fighters on france are amazing to defend against the allied drop, and to harrass allied shipping.  On G1 buy 7 inf and a fig, or a bomber and 5 inf, 1 art.  On G2 buy another fig or bomber, etc.  That means the allies have to drop more than a cruiser a turn to keep there navy alive.  When UK is only making high 20s or low 30s, that is tough for her.  Now yes they can merge fleets, but then the area you must defend is reduced, best way around this for allies are UK carriers with US fighters but still the more boats they buy, the fewer troops they land.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

I agree that Germany need to put a plane on the board every round, at least until you have 6 planes then you can hold off.  By plane, I mean fighter or bomber, your choice.