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Author Topic: TripleA still up and running! Many players online.  (Read 16240 times)
Veqryn
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« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2009, 02:21:58 pm »
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May I suggest people help petition please?

I have sent an email to the following emails:
corporateinfo@wizards.com
Hasbrogamespr@hasbro.com
hasbro_investor_relations@hasbro.com

And it said:


Dear Hasbro,
As a good customer and fan of your products, I would like to show you some of the good reasons that you should allow TripleA to continue existing, or alternatively, that you should co-opt the developers to make TripleA for you.
TripleA is free advertising.
As a freely distributed program, developed at no cost to you, TripleA is a form of advertising for your Axis and Allies board game products.  TripleA increases the desire of its users to own the various board games in real life, and also increases awareness of your different board game products.  Anyone who plays such games online will also want a copy to play against their friends and family in-person. 
TripleA does not compete with your board games. 
Almost all users of TripleA already own more than 1 of the board game products that are simulated in the program.  It takes a very hardcore player to be willing to play such games online.
TripleA supports your customer community, eliminating TripleA will alienate your customers.
Many of the users of TripleA are among your best board game customers and fans.  Most of them already own the products that they are playing with online.  By shutting down their attempts to reach out and form communities online, meet other players, share strategies, and play games online, you will be hurting or alienating your best customers. 
TripleA is an open source and publicly developed application, which allows for continuous development and support at no cost to Hasbro or its subsidiaries.  Attempts to sell such narrow applications have in the past been complete failures, resulting in a loss of equity and time for the company involved.  After their marketplace failure, these pieces of software were abandoned and no longer supported, despite their bugs, resulting in a bad image for the companies involved.  Instead of viewing TripleA as a threat, though it positively impacts your bottom line, you could instead co-opt the developers of it.  Since it is doubtful too many people would be willing to pay for software to simulate the game they already own at home, a suggested path would be to continue releasing it for free, but with advertising banners to provide some revenue as well as to increase awareness of other Hasbro products.  Opensource software saves significant money by having the customers and users do the development, support, and bug fixing for you for free.  With the time and cost it would take to build a new version from scratch, significant money could be saved by employing or even just tacitly supporting the developers of TripleA, who have already experienced all the major issues and bugs surrounding building such an online application.

In short, TripleA increases your revenue through its free advertisement of your products, as well as positively affecting your public image and providing support for an important and vital portion of your customer community.  TripleA should be allowed to continue being distributed, and/or the development of it should be co-opted by Hasbro.
Thank you for your time,
XXX
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Subotai
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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2009, 04:12:31 pm »
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@ IL, the LL issue in A&A is not a different concept/principle than a boring tv-show, if you don't like it don't watch it.
Same as tech, if you don't like it don't use it.
Tech is optional in AA50, but not in Revised, but regardless of optional or mandatory rules, many players hate tech, b/c it's completely broken, many of us like Revised and AA50 very much, as long as it is w/o tech.

And LL can also be seen the same way we perceive porn, we may not like it, at least many people dislike porn, but it's not gonna go away. It's as simple as don't watch it if you don't like it.

It's 99% sure that when GTO get enough players that are very competitive who wants to play primary 1vs1, many of the players will demand a LL option. And there are many TripleA players who prefer regular dice, even if LL players are the majority.
Just for the record, I play both ADS and LL, even if I prefer LL.
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dondoolee
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« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2009, 11:01:05 pm »
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By the way, is it just me, or on TripleA do the Italian AA's seem hit on an extrodinarily high ratio when the Allies are SBRing Italy?
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Romulus
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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2009, 12:24:48 am »
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By the way, is it just me, or on TripleA do the Italian AA's seem hit on an extrodinarily high ratio when the Allies are SBRing Italy?

This is an historical issue... Italian A&A should hit only when scoring a 0...  grin

I have a different experience in our games with TripleA and Anniversary: SBR bombing is very useful, the A&A shoot down really few bombers. However we play usually PBEM using the external dice roller not the TripleA built in dice roller.
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Nix
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« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2009, 03:38:45 am »
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This is bu*****t...


Since itīs impossiable for me to buy Axis and allies aniverary edition, i now canīt play that game at all.. Sad


So the logic is, donīt make new copies, disable the online option, present no new "solution/products"  wtf?


edit: trying to improve spelling a little.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 12:12:24 am by Nix » Logged
Cmdr Jennifer
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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2009, 06:21:03 am »
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Look, they shut down Dogs of War and that's about as completely different a name as you can possibly imagine!  I still have a copy, of course, and the AI is WAY better than in TripleA (which sucks, IMHO) and the graphics were way better too, but that's that.

I notice they went after TRIPLEA and not Battlemap. Tongue  I think the difference is that Battlemap is just a map with icons and the icons don't really look like the ones you get with the boardgame.  On top of it, battlemap doesn't have rules similar to Axis and Allies because it does not have an AI!


If you want my opinion, and you're getting it no matter what, I kind of expected TripleA to be shut down because they shut down Dogs of War for the same reason.


PS: I would enjoy an "official" AA game to be released that had all variants of the game, an AI that didn't use the tactics of a 5 year old, and a stable platform to run on.  Pretty would be okay, but function > aesthetics as I am sure most of you would agree.  Heck, make the download free and charge us $1/mo. to play it online!

One other advantage of TripleA was the ability to make your own maps and mods.  I haven't done any yet, but I am learning Java right now with the intent to try one. 

You can do the same in ABattlemap and Mapview, that's how we keep updating for new games, and even invent new games.  I wager it is far easier to do, at least for Battlemap, than it is in TripleA since you only have to create a new BMP file for a map and play around with the tiles to create different pieces!

Second, can you either post or pm me a link to dogs of war? it sounds interesting and I want to see it

No, Hasbro killed it dead.  I have a copy, but I have to figure out which HDD it's on then I can forward it.


Oh, and the reason I like tripleA, is because the map comes setup for me, units are already placed, ipcs are counted for me, most of the rules are coded so that I don't have to mess around with clicking a million times in battlemap

Battlemap and Mapview both come with all the pieces in place and the money set up.  I've never had to click millions of times in battlemap for anything.  Shift-Click = 5, Control-Click = 10, Shift-Control-Click drags an entire stack.  If anything, TripleA has been more annoying, slow, and harder to work with than either of the two alternatives (Battlemap or MapView) which is why I rarely use it for anything than solo play.

What Hasbro needs to do is produce a BETTER game and drive TripleA out of existence!

As for Subo and IL, Tech is not broken.  Players who don't like tech, typically, like a formulaic game where their over all strategy can be the same no matter what.  Sometimes I really enjoy playing these people because they get totally pissed off at you when you don't play by their rules!  (AAR Japan taking out America first or AA50 Italy ignoring Africa and sapping Russia for a faster kill.)

Honestly, it's been my opinion, that those players who refuse to use technology are generally the lower skilled players that need the rules to remain static.  The, in my opinion, better players, generally allow technology because they know how to use it and how to work around an enemy who gets it.

As for the Italian AA Gun vs SBR (Dondoo and Romu) honestly, in TripleA the AA Guns are insanely accurate anyway.  I swear they mis-programmed it so the Die choices were 1, 1, 1, 4, 5, 6 instead of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.  Same with DAAK's dice roller for AA Guns.  Using either of the platforms forces me to change tactics completely because of the disproportionate number of AA hits.  (I've got tally sheets, they used to be in the low 60% range for fatalities, they've recently dropped into the mid-50% range.)


And Nix, i agree, they should AT LEAST reprint Anniversary!  If only so I can buy another 5 sets and sell them on eBay for a 400% markup!
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Subotai
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« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2009, 07:16:14 am »
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@ Jenn, how difficult is this to understand, if you have ever played a single game of Revised or AA50, every game is different, every tactic and strategy is different in each games regardless of optional rules. There are no such thing as static strats and tactics and decisions in A&A, if someone thinks it is, they are delusional.

The best A&A players can handle both LL and ADS, but if a game is played with tech on, the side will win which gets the most powerful techs early on. If you don't believe me then I challenge you for a game where I get HBs, paras, and long range at the start of the game, then try to beat me with your strats  rolleyes

Possibly, the players who cannot play w/o tech is the players who need luck to win, not skills.

But at least we agree that Hasbro should make a better game than TripleA, b/c then we would prefer the official game rather than TripleA. It must have all the options than TripleA have, and better graphics, if not, then the official game will not be better than TripleA.



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Cmdr Jennifer
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« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2009, 08:38:44 am »
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Yes, there are static strategies.  I'm not talking about a set of exact moves every game (perhaps the same open, but not every turn.) 

Strategy 1:  SBR the enemy
Strategy 2:  Kill Germany First
Strategy 3:  Kill Italy First
Strategy 4:  Kill Japan First
Strategy 5:  Slow Japan/Kill Italy

Etc.

Those are just the allied ones.



As for you getting the trifecta at the start of the game, sure, but I want it to be America that has it and they go the first 5 game turns with no income. (Since you'll have to spend that much over the period of the game to get all three techs for one nation.)
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Subotai
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« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2009, 09:27:25 am »
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There are only strategies, not static strategies. I make different decisions in every single game, this is what matters most. How different strats are conducted is the most important factors for winning the game.

Whether we like it or not, some strats are more efficient than others, regardless of LL or ADS.

There are overall strats like KJF and KGF, but they are not static strats, only general strats.

It's not coincidental that many A&A players think tech is completely broken.

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Cmdr Jennifer
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« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2009, 10:14:00 am »
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You use different TACTICS to achieve your STRATEGY but your STRATEGY is pretty much set after round 3. 

Many of, in my opinion, weaker players do not like technology because they can be deploying a certain STRATEGY and then their opponent could get a technology that neutralizes that STRATEGY.  These, in my opinion, weaker players cannot handle it and so they refuse to play with technology.  It's not about whether or not technology is broken, it's all about their inability to compensate for, and work around technology.

You know, you COULD spend thousands of IPCs and not get a single technology.  Or you could buy a single die with Russia and Italy and get a tech that helps eventually.
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Romulus
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« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2009, 02:33:22 pm »
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I do agree that winning against an opponent that obtains a the "right tech" working around the tech requires ability but on the other hand winning obtaining the "right tech" requires more luck than ability.

So I have the possibility for winning a potentially more harder game but at same time I may lose in a fast manner.

Tech is like an House Rule I think and Larry Harris has rightly classified it as optional in Anniversary.
With my playgroup we like a lot the National Adavantages in Revised (that I would like to have in Anniversary... Italian tank that may retreat from battles... afro) that we usually assigned with dice. Obtaining Dive bombers or Panzer Blitz for Germany was almost overkill. Winning against them was really enjoing. Also they are more like House Rules.

Then, HR may like or not but they are not mandatory and IMHO is not right to think that a player that choose to not use a HR is a worst player of another that use it.

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Subotai
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« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2009, 02:50:58 pm »
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The only thing tech does different is even more randomness, this is exactly the same issue as in the LL vs ADS discussion. In the long run, the best player will win.

The biggest difference is that you need to play more games with ADS and/or tech than in LL, but the best STRATEGY A&A player will win in the long run. So stop lying about good or bad players, b/c the greater or lesser randomness will even out in the long run. And Larry Harris have said that he hates tech.

If I was the game designer I would not force LL as a mandatory rule, and if players still wants to use tech then it is a good idea to keep it as an optional rule, but this is not about skills, is about what we like and what we don't like, and many players don't like tech so we play w/o it. I you claim that players who prefers no tech is not so good as tech players, you better prove it, or stop lying. It's the same as claiming soccer players are better players than basketball players b/c there is more randomness in soccer, and it is the same as claiming that the best players will not will in the long run!!!
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Crossover
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« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2009, 02:58:43 pm »
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Hi Commander Jennifer,

first, this post is about closing tripleA by Hasbro which sucks. They are afraid people not going to buy their games but simply play AaA online. They did not consider that friends next door will never play it online, they just meet and play. But if you don't have someone to play with, why buy that game ?? The online version is a good opportunity to find players and just play. It's a shame for Hasbro after years of experience with Axis & Allies and its potential buyers to not have foreseen this trend and missed to place their own online product.

as a second point: You are completely wrong. Better players tend to not play with technology, because that kind of game play requires 100% strategic skills and better players have that know-how.
As an easy example: a complete stupid player researchs some overwhelming techs, such as LRA and HB, simply builds bombers and kick the crap out of Germany and Italy. Tell me what special skills does that kind of gameplay require? Absolutely nothing! Every idiot can play like that ( I am not saying that people that play like that are idiots, i say everyone can simply play like that!). Compare this with an US player having a strong fleet against Japan, cleverly uses the starting planes from all his ACs doing some action and land on some allied-controlled islands, while newly build fighters land on the now empty ACs after some action. Or playing the Allies combined, such as UK captures an island, while US is landing masses of fighters on it, preventing Japan from recapturing that island. This is skilled gameplay, not researching heavy bombers. - My Opinion - 
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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2009, 03:39:43 pm »
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Quote
....and IL, Tech is not broken.

I didn't say it was. I said the choices are something like 'food fillers' for lack of better choices. Its like a meatloaf made with ingredients that could show a bit more creative input.

Advanced Artillery, Mechanized Infantry and a few others are 'tricks' to avoid directly adding these units to the game as new pieces, but 'invented' by taking the existing ideas and adding nothing really in terms of a new idea that leads to a new dynamic strategy.

NO reality has these technologies in a game. Both existed in WW1. If you look at the actual major technologies that were important and first used in WW2, both of these would NEVER make the list.

However, Atomic Bomb should be on the list, as well as ASW, Wolf pack, and various others that SHOULD have been these choices. I swear to god that Mechanized Infantry were supposed to be in this game and were left out at the last minute when WOTC determined that development costs would overrun budget. So somebody probably said: "Hey just make it a Technology!" and this cheesy way of fitting it in came about. I think that its inclusion was a test run of the idea to see how it worked because they didn't play test it but wanted to try it.

To me games should not be a testing ground for ideas in a weak form so that a more practical version may appear in future games. Of course this is only my insight in this design and i can be entirely wrong. But i do know if i had this in any of my house rules i might get a baseball bat in the back of my head for being so ridiculous.
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critmonster
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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2009, 04:30:53 pm »
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...you better prove it, or stop lying.
Please learn the difference between fact and opinion, and also drop the hostility it accomplishes nothing
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