If US lost the battle of Midway

[Subotai]

Would there be any chance of US suing for peace and give Japan some of what they captured?

The strength between the two naval forces was pretty equal, and Japanese aircraft spotted the US carrier groups first (?) as seen on WW2 documentaries. 

If the outcome was opposite, a decisive Japanese victory, did the US have lots of other naval assets to use against the Japanese, as compared to the eastern front when Russia could send more soldiers than the Germans?

I guess if Japan won the battle of Midway it would only prolong the inevitable, the war in the Pacific could last a year or 5 years longer. FDR would not give in, he would produce more carriers and DDs and CAs etc, and ftrs, and send them against the Japanese.
And if US had different president than FDR he would never sue for peace, b/c the American people would not allow it?
This is what I believe, what do you think?

[F6FHellcat]

I think United States would have rely on long range Bomber and Submarine if Japan win at Midway.

Japan not able to attack United States direct so United States have safe zone on West Coast to build ship and attack Japan.  Hawaii would be main United States outpost in Pacific, with PBY to spot and B-25 and Submarine to sink Japan ship that try to move past Midway.

Nuclear Weapon still end Pacific War in 1945 even if second Doolittle raid required to get bomb in range.

[Imperious Leader]

The loss would only extend the war. There is no way in hell that the US is going to surrender if they lose 3 carriers. In a years time they outnumber the japanese pilots and carriers and it just gets worse from that point.

In the mean time Japan would have another crack at Port Moresby and attack Australia and gain more traction in China and have an airbase at Midway and start bombing Hawaii. They would take Christmas Island, the Solomons and a few other islands, but nothing more. They had no plan except to get us to "grow tired" of the war, which was not gonna happen based on the Dec 7th bombing. Never.

[ShadowHAwk]

Midway was part of a bigger plan.
It is part of the hawaian ( or how it is spelled  ) island group, since they could not attack pearl directly they wanted to lure the carriers away and then take the island group progressively. with midway and eventualy hawai as their furthest out bases.

Things would be different for the US and Japan if the battle would have gone towards japan. They would be able to capture midway and eventualy pearl harbour itself. And with that would have verry little competition taking the rest of the pacific up to australia.

It would not be verry unlikely that if the war would drag on a lot longer with more US casualties that they public oppinion would sway against the war and towards a peace treaty with Japan, especialy since the later could give back hawai for such a peace.

[ABWorsham]

If the U.S lost the Battle of Midway the war would have only been lengthed by no more than another year. I say this for the point, the Japanese could not restock trained aircrews and ships as the U.S could. The lust of revenge on Peaerl Harbor would keep the U.S in the war.

[Imperious Leader]

yep

[ShadowHAwk]

If the U.S lost the Battle of Midway the war would have only been lengthed by no more than another year. I say this for the point, the Japanese could not restock trained aircrews and ships as the U.S could. The lust of revenge on Peaerl Harbor would keep the U.S in the war.

Dont underestimate the public oppinion it can change quick in the face of huge losses.
It only takes a few huge losses in battle combined with the prospect of regaining something to change it.
Also replacing aircrews would not have been needed that badly if they would not have lost them in those numbers.

[ABWorsham]

The Japanese Aircraft models, which had little in the way of pilot or aircraft protection, demanded that Japan needed to turn out a large number of skill air crews. Had the Japanese won Midway the IJN could not easily replenish thier carriers.

Much like Wake Island, if Midway were occupied by Japanese troop, the IJN would been hard pressed to resupply the Midway garrison.

[ShadowHAwk]

The Japanese Aircraft models, which had little in the way of pilot or aircraft protection, demanded that Japan needed to turn out a large number of skill air crews. Had the Japanese won Midway the IJN could not easily replenish thier carriers.

Much like Wake Island, if Midway were occupied by Japanese troop, the IJN would been hard pressed to resupply the Midway garrison.

Well it all depends on how you define winning. If the tables had been turned and US would have lost all 3 carries while IJN would only loss a handfull of pilots it would be quite different. Not much to replace, control of the ocean, abbility to take out pearl and capture it, the possibilities are pretty big there.
It will be hard to determine if the US public would still support a war if the IJN could bomb cities at the coast and when the huge loss of lives would become known.
The US would not surrender ofcourse but a peace treaty would not be impossible imo.

[ABWorsham]

The Japanese Aircraft models, which had little in the way of pilot or aircraft protection, demanded that Japan needed to turn out a large number of skill air crews. Had the Japanese won Midway the IJN could not easily replenish thier carriers.

Much like Wake Island, if Midway were occupied by Japanese troop, the IJN would been hard pressed to resupply the Midway garrison.

Well it all depends on how you define winning. If the tables had been turned and US would have lost all 3 carries while IJN would only loss a handfull of pilots it would be quite different. Not much to replace, control of the ocean, abbility to take out pearl and capture it, the possibilities are pretty big there.
It will be hard to determine if the US public would still support a war if the IJN could bomb cities at the coast and when the huge loss of lives would become known.
The US would not surrender ofcourse but a peace treaty would not be impossible imo.

It would have been foolish for the IJN to start bombing West Coast Cities. This action would place IJN carriers in danger of shore based aircraft and submarines. The bombing of these cities would cause a strong public out cry for revenge. The U.S public demanded a strong response when the Japanese ocupied the worthless frozen Aleutian Islands, multiply that response if the U.S Pacific Fleet is destroyed and California cities are damaged.

Had the Japanese targeted the Panama Canal early in the war, what effects would this have on U.S logistics?

[Imperious Leader]

Thats what i would have done. Sink a large japanese ocean liner in the middle of the canal. That would buy the japanese 6 more months of delay of American military power projection to the Pacific.

But a 3rd strike and even a go for broke invasion of Hawaii in Dec 41 would have done us much more damage.

USA would have no ships available except a few carriers against 6 front line carriers.

At Midway Japan brought 4 real carriers against 3 of ours and we DIDN'T know they were coming. This would have been a huge victory if they pressed for the all out go for broke approach.

Doing all 3 would have really been Japans best bet.

[ShadowHAwk]

Thats what i would have done. Sink a large japanese ocean liner in the middle of the canal. That would buy the japanese 6 more months of delay of American military power projection to the Pacific.

But a 3rd strike and even a go for broke invasion of Hawaii in Dec 41 would have done us much more damage.

USA would have no ships available except a few carriers against 6 front line carriers.

At Midway Japan brought 4 real carriers against 3 of ours and we DIDN'T know they were coming. This would have been a huge victory if they pressed for the all out go for broke approach.

Doing all 3 would have really been Japans best bet.

No need for supperliner to stop the channel just bomb the locks and control stations. US was so afraid of this that in the war they actualy made some backup doors in case that japan would bomb the current lock doors away.

Also the first strike on pearl would have been much better if they actualy had followed up with 1-2 more stikes then they did and targeted the right items ( fuel depot/ workshop/AAguns ) or if they would have had better intel and actualy attacked when the carriers where in port.

1 of the big reasons midway went so well for the US was because they could read the japanese codes. It aint that hard to find someone if you know where he is and when he is there it is a lot harder if you dont even know if he is comming.

[idk_iam_swiss]

Agreed with pervious post. Its not that Americans had a "better military" They did but the advantages are overexagerated. Its only because Americans knew Japans codes that we were able to defeat them. A victory at midway would have prolonged the inevitable.

[dinosaur]

Much like Wake Island, if Midway were occupied by Japanese troop, the IJN would been hard pressed to resupply the Midway garrison.

This get's to the point.  In my opinion, the Japanese plan to attack Midway was foolhardy and a misuse of their resources.  If Japan had won the battle decisively, say killing all three US carriers and losing only one themselves, they still have one major challenge that the US will beat them up with.  I do not think Japan could have supplied Midway and would be forced to abandon the men there in a few months.  I believe this because of the different approach to the use of Submarines by both sides.  The Japanese used subs to augment their naval strategy against the US naval forces.  We used our subs to disrupt their supply lines.  Because of this philosophical difference, the Japanese appear to have neglected planning for how they would use Midway.  The US could and would have used subs to prevent any ship from ever making it to Midway.  Without resupply by ship, the Japanese forces on Midway would have been forced to surrender.

In the meantime, Japan would have initially tried to get a substantial base there to work on the remainder of the Hawaiian Island chain, oblivious to the long term logistics problem.  Initially supplies would trickle in until the US sub net was firmly established.  The Japanese might well try and ferry in gas and bombs from carriers operating west of Midway and then continue to use the airfield to attack Hawaii.  Unfortunately for the Japanese, this would strain their petroleum reserves and place at least one carrier group in danger of US attack.  It would have probably taken two carrier groups just to maintain the supply lines to Midway eating up more petroleum and naval assets.

This is similar to the events that played out at Guadalcanal.  One difference is that Guadalcanal was much closer to the Japanese supply base so it wasn’t the strain the Midway campaign would have been.  Also, the many islands in the Guadalcanal theatre helped protect the Japanese supply lines.

Midway was a wonderful success for the US as everyone knows.  However, even a Japanese victory would have become a defeat which actual history managed to conceal.

[ShadowHAwk]

Midway was a forward submarine base for the US. It aint like subs can stay in the water indefinately and that japan did not have any escorts. Problem with the Guadalcanal campage wasnt the submarines but the air support the allies had and japan did not have because they lost most of their aircrew at midway.

Not losing the aircrew at midway would have made a huge difference.

US basicaly won because of sheer econimic power and some inteligence.