• Hi folks, another question for y’all, hope you don’t mind me picking your collective brains…… =)

    I have a BIG game coming up in a few nights, (guy I work with has been trash talking for weeks now) and needless to say I’ve been going over and over how this game might play out. A little background on my opponent: He’s not very experienced, but he’s VERY aggressive. He’s also playing the Axis. I graciously offered to play Russia restricted, but in his pride (and ignorance) he said he didn’t need it. =p

    I’ll insist on it though - I wan’t to give him at least a chance. Plus it’ll bother him.

    I can guarantee he’ll attack Karelia right off the bat. Herein lies my question.

    If I recall correctly, I’ve read that making that attack is one of the worst moves you can make. I haven’t really figured out why. If the attack goes poorly ( I will probably have 17inf and 2 planes there - not sure about the tanks. suggestions?) then obviously, Germany is screwed. If the die rolls are average, then I can see that also not boding well for Germany - a few tanks left, not enough to attack Russia, and vulnerable to other allied attacks, weak everywhere else. IF the attack goes well though - that definately puts the allies in a tough spot. My question is:

    What is a good strategy for the Allies to respond with, assuming a moderately sucessful Karelia invasion, turn 1?

    Perhaps this is one of those cases were if the b*stard is lucky enough to pull it off, the games his. But I’m guessing someone here has found a way to win. =)

    Should England and US forego any presence in Asia? It seems to me they would probably have to. Or is this a bad strategy for Germany for another reason entirely, one I have not considered?

    Thanks in advance!


  • @K-Ration:

    I can guarantee he’ll attack Karelia right off the bat. Herein lies my question.

    If I recall correctly, I’ve read that making that attack is one of the worst moves you can make.

    most often it is said it is a “bad” move, because it (a) decides the game very quickly with (b) relying on luck only without any strategy or tactics.
    That’s why it is “bad” for the fun that the game has to offer.

    What is a good strategy for the Allies to respond with, assuming a moderately sucessful Karelia invasion, turn 1?

    Perhaps this is one of those cases were if the b*stard is lucky enough to pull it off, the games his. But I’m guessing someone here has found a way to win. =)

    The point is, if you play multiple games, and he does the same move all the time, he will lose more often than you win. So, the thing to do is forfeit, and restart…. do about a dozen of “one-turn” games…
    It is not that much fun, i see… but maybe he learns then ;) :)

    Now for the techniques how to counter that:
    You either can pump your Stalingrad forces to help defend Karelia, or keep enough away from the battle to retake it. … You should calculate for yourself how much you would expect you would need: Mainly, should the fighters defend, how many Infs to keep back with the tanks, should the east siberian tank go to the western front?
    If you can push him back there, then you probably can end the game quickly, quicker than the Japanese can come to chew away your back.


  • Thanks for the reply!

    Everything you’ve said makes sense to me, but I’m still learning, so I thought I’d ask. =)


  • The other thing is:
    suppose he takes it - what did he take it with? It takes a fairly concerted effort to take Karelia, and chances are he left a few UK boats around. This means that a T2-T3 retaking by the UK should involved little effort provided that UK1 you provide them with a semblance of a navy (AC, trn, etc.). If he leaves the UK navy intact for whatever reason, then the world is your oyster - you can hit Finland, or if he has only arm on KAR, then you can hit them as well (not a bad plan sometimes, but it does leave your navy vulnerable, so i usually just plant inf on to Fin).
    If he kills Kar AND takes out the UK’s fleet, then rebuild, and depending on the forces left in Russia you may retake it, or hope against hope for some help in T3 before Moscow falls.

  • Moderator

    For your defense you can go with:

    1. 18 inf and 2 ftrs, with 1 inf in Cauc and 1 in Moscow. Also move 3 tanks to Moscow and 1 to Novo. You will be able to retake Kar on Rd 2.
    2. 18 inf, 3 arm, 2 ftrs in Kar, with 1 inf on Cauc and Mos and a tank on Novo. This should be able to hold Kar, and an attack on these kind of numbers is suicide. UK should be able to retake it for you. It should have a tran left (because ftrs will be needed to assualt Kar - 11 inf and 7 tanks won’t get it done alone), and UK can send 2 inf, 2 ftrs and a bom to recapture Kar, lose a ftr if you have to, because if UK takes it back Russia can place in Kar on Rd2 and the game is over.

  • One thing I would consider concerning GB is, assuming their navy is still intact, can they take France using the transport off Canada (this assumes that the transport in the North sea is used to retake Karelia)? Then have the US reinforce it with their transport and inf from the mainland (plus maybe a fighter)? Or the US take it after GB softens up W. Europe?

    Just a thought, what does everyone else think?

  • Moderator

    Good point Guest. UK could have a BB available to even take a shot at WE.


  • Personally, I’d hit West or East Europe with the UK turn 3, and then another hit with both the US and UK turn 4 on Germany itself. Theres no way Japan can even effect the war, and even if Germany does take Russia, their infantry are 3 turns away from Germany.


  • I was gonna post earlier but didn’t have enough time. I think all the previous posts are right on; basically if you are sure your opponent will go balls-out vs. Karelia, that’s a big advantage for you because you know what your enemy will do. By being so consistently hyperaggressive, your opponent has forfeited the element of surprise–unless he plays conservative this game though, in which case he’s wilier than you thought :o !

    I think in the instance that your opponent is sure to attack Karelia, put a strong attacking force in Russia & Caucases (like some INF in Caucases & all your ARM in Russia). Don’t leave Karelia undefended–put a lot of INF there, just not quite enough to win the battle; at this point you actually WANT your opponent to invade because that’s what you expect him to do! Weaken his forces as much as you can before your army is destroyed. Then all you have to do is mop up…

    Carefully consider the position of the 2 FTRs you have at your disposal. They are two of the most crucial units on the board & you don’t want to lose them. On the other hand, they are strongest defending so you want to place them where they can do the most long-term damage…

    If you have deployed well, Germany will have to utilize a signifigant portion of their airpower in order to win in Karelia. That means their attacks on Britian’s fleets will be correspondingly weaker. Assuming you’ve moved your Barents Sea SZ fleet to North Sea SZ, even if Germany uses only 2 FTR to atack Karelia, odds are at least one UK BB will survive. That is very, very bad for the Axis! They will lose a FTR or 2 on the North Sea SZ attack (maybe a BMR) and still have an impossibly strong force to attack on T3 there (if UK builds its usual CV)! Sure, they might use just their navy in the Med to attack Gibraltar, but there you can often sink them T1 (maybe w/ US help)…

    Basically, try to thwart the Karelia attack by judicious counterattacks & good defense, while exploiting Germany’s corresponding weakness on other fronts. Good Germany players think about ALL of their enemies, not just one–every turn–and employ every IPC to it’s absolute fullest. A direct, T1 assault on Karelia with all available forces is just not practical or efficient. It leaves one dreadfully weak in all other areas & if it fails to win you Moscow in a few turns, you’re sunk…

    Ozone27

    …on second thought, maybe that’s too extreme. A T1 attack on Karelia isn’t ALWAYS impractical, but it usually is. Since there is bound to be a battle there eventually anyway, might as well get it started early if you can. But usually it’s impossible to make it work…


  • Thanks again folks! Great suggestions here.

    I must admit this is all a bit humbling to me. I remember first playing the board game as a kid, never, ever losing a game, and thinking I was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then I picked it back up in the army, still never losing a game, and reaffirming my idea that I was Napolean reincarnate.

    Years go by, I see Iron Blitz in the bargain shelf, wipe up the floor with the computer (yes, I’m still the greatest!) and then one night, I surf some A & A sites just for kicks……

    and find everything I thought I knew was WRONG!!!

    =)

    Now I’m doubting my ability - but I shall return!

    With a victory in hand!

    cheer


  • Hey K - join the PBEM’ers!


  • Want to beat up on the n00b, eh? =)

    The thought had briefly crossed my mind, but

    A) I don’t have the board game anymore
    B) I get headaches when I try to follow turn reports here =)

    Seriously though, if whatever programs are needed (move simulator, dice roller? I haven’t really looked into it) is usable by a 7 year old, then maybe I could try to hook it up.

    Can I find all these things here?


  • Found the link to the PBEM thread, I’ll read though it.

    I also have Iron Blitz, if anyone still plays that online.

    edit

    Followed the link to the download page, and I see there are a ton of them.
    Which are the onces I need? Thanks =)


  • @Anonymous:

    … assuming UK navy is still intact, can they take France using the transport off Canada (this assumes that the transport in the North sea is used to retake Karelia)? Then have the US reinforce it with their transport and inf from the mainland (plus maybe a fighter)? Or the US take it after GB softens up W. Europe?

    If Germany took KAR, hit KAR and take it (see Darthmax) so USSR can build in KAR at end of USSR T2.
    If Germany failed at KAR hit FIN/NOR on UK1 to keep your fleet together.
    W Eur can be hit in coordination with US on later turns.


  • @K-Ration:

    Found the link to the PBEM thread, I’ll read though it.

    I also have Iron Blitz, if anyone still plays that online.

    edit

    Followed the link to the download page, and I see there are a ton of them.
    Which are the onces I need? Thanks =)

    You need to go to “dicey” to roll out your battles - http://linksync.net/login.html

    You also want to go to www.aamc.net - go to the supply depot, and pick up the beta version of the map. This will keep things on your 'puter so that you don’t hurt your head thinking about everything. It’s a very user friendly map with a couple handy stats. Also “dicey” is very handy too.


  • As per xi, If germ takesa Karelia and USSR retakes it i don’t think USSR can place units on Karelia on that turn. If, however UK takes Karelia then USSR can place units. I could be wrong. i don’t have a rule book.


  • Warning….long, rambling post ahead!

    For those of you anxiously awaiting the results of my battle with the aggressive co-worker, I’m happy to report the Allies had astounding success, winning 4 of 4 games played! cheers wildly

    Highlights from the evening:

    Our first game was non-RR. I strafed the Ukraine with Russia, as Germany he went full tilt into Karelia, won with one tank remaining.
    England retook next turn, he resigned a turn later. Wuss!

    Second game was RR, he went full tilt into Karelia once again, and this time lost rather badly. He resigned right away. =)

    Third game started off well - Russia and Germany played conservatively, England bought an IC for India, and then up came Japan. He threw pretty much everything he had at Asia. Took India (one inf remaining) lost in China, and took SFE. He had purchased an IC and placed it in Burma, whos only defender was a Bomber =p

    America next, retook India, and luckily won the inf vs bomber combat, taking over Burma as well. Japan was totally off the continent by turn three, I’ve never seen that before, and it was pretty funny. He resigned on turn 4.

    The 4th game was interesting, and I’m hoping to get some input on it.
    Just highlights here, this took place a few nights ago.

    Turn 1:
    Stacked Karelia with Russia turn one, one plane to India, stacked Yakut.

    Germany took out Englands Med fleet, and home fleet, with no plane losses =/

    England bought an IC, moved two men from Africa to support.

    Japan bought an IC, won at Pearl, took China.

    America bought transports and men, started moving fleet to Atlantic. Attacked Africa with one tank(vs. one inf), lost. Not sure if this was a wise move, as I knew the transport would be toast, but he didn’t reinforce Africa his first turn, so I thought I should try to hit him while he was weak. Good move or not?

    Turn 2:

    Russia took Finland, stacked Karelia.

    Germany dropped two men in Africa, (probably took a country there somewhere) reinforced EE.

    England sunk most of the Germans fleet (battleship left) placed a Carrier at home, and tanks in India. Also flew a plane to reinforce India.

    Japan bought another IC (for Kwang), placed tanks in Burma.

    America sunk the German Battleship, and attacked Africa again with 5 or 6 infantry, vs one inf. Lost!!
    Here’s another one I wasnt sure of. I figured he wouldnt build any more transports, so I thought to hit him again and get him out of there for good. Should that be my priority before reinforcing Russia?

    Sent another plane to India.

    Turn 3:

    Russia took Ukraine, (defended lightly) placed most inf in Karelia, a few in Moscow.

    Germany retook Ukraine (with tanks! dummy=) put men in W. Europe and EE.

    England bought more tanks for India, and a transport for home.

    Japan bought 6 tanks and placed in Asia.

    US started dropping men in Finland.

    Turn 4:

    Russia retakes Ukraine (to be held for the rest of the game)
    moves a few men east, places the rest in Karelia.

    At this point I’d like to note that with the exception of SFE, Russia had control of every starting territory and held two extra, for most of the game. I think that alone should have made for an easy game. It sure didn’t seem that way though! Anyway - continuing on…

    Germany buys men and reinforces…

    England starts shuttling some men to Finland and puts more tanks in India

    Japan buys all tanks again…

    Us shuttles men to Europe.

    I’ll condense the rest =)

    The German/Russian front was pretty much static most of the game. I put men in Karelia, he put men in EE.

    Japan never attacked any Russian territory. (other than SFE in the beginning) Even with a decent income coming in, I think Germany was still outproducing me (as Russia) by a little bit, so I never moved many men towards Japan. I think perhaps I was underestimating the power of my def vs. his offense (he had mostly men, as well) and to this end, I had the US putting most of their effort shuttling men to Europe.

    After turn 4ish though, the numbers of inf on both sides got to be quite high - high enough that I was afraid to attack with Russia (I had not started investing in tanks until later in the game, after more reinforcements came in) and US and England never had enough of a presence to make a dent.

    I think perhaps I could have defended with just Russia, and tried to retake Africa with the US, but I was nervous of the eventual (I thought) Japanese breakthrough, and my subsequent defense of Russia. I didn’t want to fall behind Germany on the western front. Any thoughts?

    On the Eastern side, my IC in India did a superb job of keeping Japan at bay. While he kept Burma strong enough that I didnt consider attacking it, all he did was buy tanks for the eventual attack in India. I fully intended to lose it, as I understand it to be mainly a delaying tactic, (unless he goes towards Russia, which he didn’t) and I figured I was on borrowed time already. We had a few minor skirmishes over Sinkiang, which I would always end up controlling.

    The death knell came when he eventually bought an IC for Egypt (with Germany), and flew his entire German air force there.

    With Japan, he finally attacked with some tanks into Yakut and Sinkiang, which he won.

    His next turn as Germany he attacked India, thinking to weaken it for Japans imminent invasion. Personally, I thought it was great for me - I had enough forces that I knew he would lose all his planes, and although I would probably lose the IC next turn, I would inflict some decent casualties on Japan when they did invade. As luck would have it, he missed with 4 fighters, and a bomber! I killed em all. He blames the entire loss on this roll. Perhaps he’s right?=)

    I then counter attacked into Burma, had great rolls, and won there.
    With Japan broken, he resigned.

    As I look back on this game, I see he did almost everything wrong. As Germany, he lost a lot of tanks fighting minor Ukraine battles. He stopped trying to retake it, even though I only had two men there.
    Japan was even worse - he bought two IC’s his first two turns. He never attacked Russia!

    And still, this game (in my mind) was never over until the last battles in India. Why NOT!! =p

    According to everything I’ve read, he made every move you aren’t supposed to make, and with the exception of being very safe in the west, did not have a clear advantage anywhere else. Any ideas?

    I realize not taking Africa (even though he never took all of it himself) probably hurt, although ultimately I don’t see the 20 or so IPC’s he gained with Germany as having any significant impact. I still wouldn’t have attacked had he 6 less men, he had too many already.

    Anyway, if you have any pearls of wisdom to throw my way, please do, and I take constructive criticism very well. Thanks for reading!


  • Game 4: Obviously, Axis lost due to weak Japan


  • @K-Ration:

    … Russia had control of every starting territory and held two extra, for most of the game.

    The German/Russian front was pretty much static most of the game.

    Japan never attacked any Russian territory.

    With Japan, he finally attacked with some tanks into Yakut and Sinkiang, which he won.

    His next turn as Germany he attacked India, thinking to weaken it for Japans imminent invasion. … He blames the entire loss on this roll. Perhaps he’s right?=)

    With Japan broken, he resigned.

    As I look back on this game, I see he did almost everything wrong. As Germany, he lost a lot of tanks fighting minor Ukraine battles. He stopped trying to retake it, even though I only had two men there.
    Japan was even worse - he bought two IC’s his first two turns. He never attacked Russia!

    And still, this game (in my mind) was never over until the last battles in India. Why NOT!! =p

    I realize not taking Africa (even though he never took all of it himself) probably hurt, although ultimately I don’t see the 20 or so IPC’s he gained with Germany as having any significant impact. I still wouldn’t have attacked had he 6 less men, he had too many already. …

    From what i read here, i can’t see the impact of the western allies. Your Russia did well, so i wonder why you didn’t start a UK-US-Russia three-punch onto german lines. The 20 IPCs of Africa are not only 6 men less for germany, but also six more for the allies.
    Did you have a look at the “standard” US shuttle techniques to get men to Russia? I understand that the UK was pretty much focused on India and delaying Japan: a strategy that is at least discussable, but it worked for you there, so that’s ok. Still, i miss the US. where did their forces go? Even a two punch US-Russia should have been enough to gnaw into Germany.

    So, when he blamed everything on the India battle…. he does not consider that the UK then would have been free to go for germany as well (esp a germany stripped of fighters for at least two rounds, why didn’t you attack?) plus your US strategy seems not to have had enough impact onto Germany.


  • K-R_,
    I agree with F_k.

    NOTE: If Japan is at least two attacks away from Moscow on UK’s turn …
    you can have three attacks on Germany and it’s forces before Germany responds. If Japan make headway and will attack Moscow on the second turn Moscow must build and move to defend, but can still damage Germany. By turn 3 or 4 US and UK can be shipping units to W EUR or Fin/Nor each turn. Basing the combined fleet in UK sz is hard to beat.

    Next time just post an outline of the game … Maybe even the last turn or two. We’ll get the idea and give you some alternatives. :wink:

    Happy gaming!
    If @ first you don’t succeed … kill: kill again!

Suggested Topics

  • 2
  • 12
  • 12
  • 37
  • 4
  • 21
  • 10
  • 13
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures

40

Online

17.0k

Users

39.3k

Topics

1.7m

Posts