Which would have been a better Ally to Germany?

[ABWorsham]

I'm curious about your thoughts on this subject.

[LT04]

Hmm... That's a hard one.  I had to go with Turkey.  Hitler wanted Moscow as a prize so having an ally there just made sence.  But Spain would have to be a close second to help keep the allies out of Europe.

Edit:  Turkey would also be better because Spain is so exposed to the <edit>Atlantic<edit>.  Turkey is at Germany's and Italy's back door much harder for the allies to get to since they would have to go around.  Having a second direct path by sea to Russia would have been greatly desired by Hitler. End Edit.

LT

[dezrtfish]

lol, I assume you mean the Atlantic

[LT04]

Yeah your correct.  I have probably explained this before.  I grew up in California so when I think ocean I think Pacific.  You would think now that I have lived in New York for 8 years I would break that habit and know better. 

LT

[a44bigdog]

Well since they were getting plenty of co-operation from Spain I would have to say Turkey. This would have allowed them entry into the Black sea without having to ship boats overland (they did that). It would have also allowed them more of a presence with their harassing operations in Iraq and Jordan.

[F6FHellcat]

Turkey.  Way to open new front in early part of war against United Kingdom in Middle East would be benefit.  Would make Russia front much longer splitting Russia to 4 Army groups not 3 but same number men available.  Would make easier for Germany to get oil.

[bbrett3]

definitely Turkey, new front on the middle east and Africa as well as a flanking position on Russia

[ABWorsham]

I think Spain would be more tempting of a choice had that country not been in recovery from a bloody long civil war. With a better navy than Turkey, first-class ports for U-Boats and Gibraltar for the grab Spain does look tempting.

I wonder the fighting capabilities of an average Spanish unit vs a Turkish unit.

[Zhukov44]

Alliance with Turkey would have allowed the Germans to knock out British oil fields by blitzing into Iraq, Syria and Persia.  And then there that other front against the Soviets (which is another possible reason the Turks wanted neutrality--the Russians stomped them in World War I).  It's a miracle the Turks made an alliance with Great Britain right before the war--otherwise the world might be very different today.

Very true re. the U-Boot possibilities offered by Spain.  But Spain would also be a pretty good place for the Allies to open a front--entering the war on the Axis side gives the Allies a good excuse to attack. 

[11HP20]

I voted Turkey for the same location reasons already pointed out. I think just having Turkey joining the Axis would have been better then both Turkey and Spain joining. Spain was drained after it's civil war and could not hope the guard it's considerable coastline. The drain on Germany to help guard this would have been a detriment. Spain not being known for it's overabunance of natural resources would not have made this drain very beneficial.

[testguy 111]

Turkey because if Turkey were with the Axis they could....
1. Get soldiers to the middle east and possible take out Cairo
2. Help fight off the soviets
3. Stop many more or even slow down the allies in Africa so the allies might not attack Italy.
So these reasons would change the war completely.

[ABWorsham]

What if Turkey joined the Axis and became another weak partner, another 'Italy'. From my understand Turkey's military consisted of infantry and artillery. With no tanks nor motorized infantry, Turkey would have trouble taking on the U.K and the U.S.S.R.

[bbrett3]

What if Turkey joined the Axis and became another weak partner, another 'Italy'. From my understand Turkey's military consisted of infantry and artillery. With no tanks nor motorized infantry, Turkey would have trouble taking on the U.K and the U.S.S.R.

Both the UK commonwealth and Russia were at their breaking point and then beat the Germans back, all the Axis needed was a little extra push in those theaters in order to win, which could have been provided by the Turks.

[Zhukov44]

What if Turkey joined the Axis and became another weak partner, another 'Italy'. From my understand Turkey's military consisted of infantry and artillery. With no tanks nor motorized infantry, Turkey would have trouble taking on the U.K and the U.S.S.R.

Good enough reason to stay neutral.

When the war began, Turkey excused itself from earlier security commitments to Great Britain by pointing out that France could no longer fulfill its treaty obligations, and that the treaty did not obligate Turkey to participate in a war involving Russia.  When Germany conquered Greece and Yugoslavia, war with USSR certainly became more likely.  If the Turks were tempted to join the Axis, they also had to take into account that German enemies could attack from all sides, and the German army wouldn't be in the region forever.

[ABWorsham]

What if Turkey joined the Axis and became another weak partner, another 'Italy'. From my understand Turkey's military consisted of infantry and artillery. With no tanks nor motorized infantry, Turkey would have trouble taking on the U.K and the U.S.S.R.

Good enough reason to stay neutral.

When the war began, Turkey excused itself from earlier security commitments to Great Britain by pointing out that France could no longer fulfill its treaty obligations, and that the treaty did not obligate Turkey to participate in a war involving Russia.  When Germany conquered Greece and Yugoslavia, war with USSR certainly became more likely.  If the Turks were tempted to join the Axis, they also had to take into account that German enemies could attack from all sides, and the German army wouldn't be in the region forever.

Well said.