Unbeatable Allied Strategy

[dakgoalie38]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, and possibly a way to beat it has even been found, but I'm new here and the search function doesn't seem to be working right now.

Anyway, I was playing as Japan a while back and someone used this strategy on Germany and basically left me fighting the war alone.  Anyway, I was able to take India, China, and Buryatia on J1 and by J3 I had taken Western US.  Things were of course going pretty well for me.  Unfortunately though the US player had some extremely lucky dice rolls early on and researched heavy bombers on US1 with only one die and long range aircraft on US2, again with only one die.  So anyway, I was in the Western US by turn 3, thinking that the US, which of course had been going KGF which allowed me to take the Western US, wouldn't be able to have it back.  Well I forgot about their upgrades and by US5 they had it back.  But even with the Western US back in American hands I began stepping up my invasion of Asia again.  Unfortunately though the German player had made no advance into Russia and the US at this point had 5 heavy bombers.  So basically Germany was reduced to an overwhelming income of 0 IPCs per turn and Russia was able to put full focus on me, and of course we lost.

So after seeing how easily heavy bombers could decimate the German economy, I decided to play as the allies and see if I could focus on heavy bombers only and win a game through decimating the German economy.  What I did was every turn I built 2 bombers and use 10 IPCs to research heavy bombers.  After I got heavy bombers (which I did on turn 1) I used the 10 leftover IPCs to build transports for the atlantic.  By G5, Germany had only around 20 IPCs in the bank and by turn 6 they had nothing.  Russia was then able to both push into Germany and take it over all while fighting off the Japanese from the East.  It worked like magic.

For any of you still unconvinced, let me give you a quick rundown using extremely conservative estimates.  Your starting bomber would begin bombing by US2, taking away 3-4 IPCs if you don't have heavy bombers yet.  Your next two bombers would begin bombing on US3, and by now you should have heavy bombers since you should have had six rolls at it by now, unless of course you are extremely unlucky, and you should take away about 21 IPCs from Germany.  By turn 4 you should have 5 bombers, and assuming one is shot down, you should take away 28 IPCs from Germany.  Next turn you should have 6 bombers, and again assuming one is shot down, you should take away 35 IPCs from Germany.  And by turn 6, you should have 7 bombers, and if one is shot down, you should take away 42 IPCs and Germany should have a whole 0 IPCs in the bank and Russia on their doorstep from the last 3 turns of operating at half economy (which is also why I assumed that their economy hadn't passed 40).

Also, I'm not too sure about this one, and I can't find my rulebook, but is it that each bomber can only take away the equivalent of the territory value, (10 IPCs from Germany) or that overall a territory can't lose more than its value to strategic bombing raids in one turn?  If it is the first one, then scrap this whole plan, (although two heavy bombers attacking Germany and one attacking Southern Europe might work well) but the second one works in the online version so I would assume it's right.

[Krieghund]

It depends.  If you're playing by the box rules, each bomber can do up to 10 IPCs.  If you're playing by the Larry Harris Tournament Rules, the total of all attacks for each turn is a maximum of 10 IPCs.  If you're not using LHTR, you should be, for this and other reasons.

[LT04]

dakgoalie38,

     The US was runnig SBR's and Russia was beating down the E Europe so what was UK doing as a part of this plan?

LT

[Cmdr Jennifer]

dakgoalie38,

     The US was runnig SBR's and Russia was beating down the E Europe so what was UK doing as a part of this plan?

LT

If it were me, the UK would also be going SBR campaigns.

It depends.  If you're playing by the box rules, each bomber can do up to 10 IPCs.  If you're playing by the Larry Harris Tournament Rules, the total of all attacks for each turn is a maximum of 10 IPCs.  If you're not using LHTR, you should be, for this and other reasons.

I believe you are incorrect here.  LHTR for heavy bombers is 1d6+1 damage per bomber up to territory max.  That is, of course, if they have not changed again and I just did not notice.

As for the book rules, I thought it was 2d6, but again, I never - not even once - played AAR with the manual from the box.

[LT04]

dakgoalie38,

     The US was runnig SBR's and Russia was beating down the E Europe so what was UK doing as a part of this plan?

LT

If it were me, the UK would also be going SBR campaigns.

I had thought of that but the US at some point wouldn't need any assistance from the UK here.  I was wondering if the UK massed a navy to destroy the German Navy, or built a transport armada for moving into Norway or W Europe.

LT

[Cmdr Jennifer]

I say England would be doing SBRs as well because the most America can do to Germany (assuming they are not silly enough to build more Industrial Complexes) is 16 IPC.  So if England joins in, then the allies can potentially do 32 IPC in damage.

[LT04]

I say England would be doing SBRs as well because the most America can do to Germany (assuming they are not silly enough to build more Industrial Complexes) is 16 IPC.  So if England joins in, then the allies can potentially do 32 IPC in damage.

Oh I agree but at some point you need to start nabing real estate, that's why I thought UK may have a diffrent role.

I could see if UK did the SBR for the first say three rounds till the US gets a decent Air Force going, but at some point how many bombers do you need?

LT

[Krieghund]

It depends.  If you're playing by the box rules, each bomber can do up to 10 IPCs.  If you're playing by the Larry Harris Tournament Rules, the total of all attacks for each turn is a maximum of 10 IPCs.  If you're not using LHTR, you should be, for this and other reasons.

I believe you are incorrect here.  LHTR for heavy bombers is 1d6+1 damage per bomber up to territory max.  That is, of course, if they have not changed again and I just did not notice.

As for the book rules, I thought it was 2d6, but again, I never - not even once - played AAR with the manual from the box.

Yes, you're right about how much damage each bomber can do, but what I was talking about was the damage that can be done to the Germany IC in one turn under each ruleset.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

Didn't realize you couldn't do 20 IPC dmg to Germany if you used two different nations.  Kinda figured that technically you COULD do 30 dmg to Germany (Russia - 10 IPC, England - 10 IPC, America - 10 IPC)

[Krieghund]

Didn't realize you couldn't do 20 IPC dmg to Germany if you used two different nations.  Kinda figured that technically you COULD do 30 dmg to Germany (Russia - 10 IPC, England - 10 IPC, America - 10 IPC)

You can.  You can do up to 10 on each of the Allied powers' turns.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

Didn't realize you couldn't do 20 IPC dmg to Germany if you used two different nations.  Kinda figured that technically you COULD do 30 dmg to Germany (Russia - 10 IPC, England - 10 IPC, America - 10 IPC)

You can.  You can do up to 10 on each of the Allied powers' turns.

Thanks for clarifying.  It's been a long time since I read up on SBRs in AAR.  I really only do SBR in AARe now, so I was beginning to wonder! hehe.

So technically with England and America going at it, you could do up to 32 IPC damage to Germany - realistically speaking. 

[LT04]

So for this strategy to be most effective ([edit:] with the LHTR) Russia needs  1-3 BMR's as well.

That could put this into the to hard to do box.

LT

[Krieghund]

So technically with England and America going at it, you could do up to 32 IPC damage to Germany - realistically speaking. 

Yes, under LHTR, by bombing both Germany and Southern Europe.

So for this strategy to be most effective ([edit:] with the LHTR) Russia needs  1-3 BMR's as well.

That could put this into the to hard to do box.

LT

Yes, it is much harder to do under LHTR with the damage cap.  However, under the box rules it's ridiculously easy, with each bomber being capped at 10 IPCs.  You need only about 5-6 heavy bombers to reduce Germany to zero IPCs every turn, unless Germany gets very lucky with AA.

[timerover51]

I have checked both my Rules manual for Revised that came with the game, and the Rules download from the Avalon Hill website.  I do not find in either set of rules anything about capping heavy bomber attacks at 10 IPC per bomber.  The only cap that is mentioned is a Strategic Bombing Raid may not inflict more damage for each bomber than the territory has IPC value.

Saying that each bomber is capped at 10 IPC is very much different that saying the each bomber can do a maximum of 10 IPC damage because that is Germany's IPC value. 
\

Yes, it is much harder to do under LHTR with the damage cap.  However, under the box rules it's ridiculously easy, with each bomber being capped at 10 IPCs.  You need only about 5-6 heavy bombers to reduce Germany to zero IPCs every turn, unless Germany gets very lucky with AA.

[TimTheEnchanter]

I have checked both my Rules manual for Revised that came with the game, and the Rules download from the Avalon Hill website.  I do not find in either set of rules anything about capping heavy bomber attacks at 10 IPC per bomber.  The only cap that is mentioned is a Strategic Bombing Raid may not inflict more damage for each bomber than the territory has IPC value.

Saying that each bomber is capped at 10 IPC is very much different that saying the each bomber can do a maximum of 10 IPC damage because that is Germany's IPC value. 
\

Yes, it is much harder to do under LHTR with the damage cap.  However, under the box rules it's ridiculously easy, with each bomber being capped at 10 IPCs.  You need only about 5-6 heavy bombers to reduce Germany to zero IPCs every turn, unless Germany gets very lucky with AA.

I think he just used 10 because the case being cited was an attack against Germany.