Axis Road to Economic Parity - Unlikely

[Emperor Mollari]

The mistake Japan usually makes after the capital swap is moving to far into europe before they have built up suffiencient forces. Take a look at this map.  It's round 31 after Japan's move, the US has a huge army in Eastern but an attack against Ukraine only has a 29% chance of success.  Even if they reinforce Eastern this turn with tanks from Germany, Japan has an 55% chance of success.  If they add the US fighters then they're fleet is exposed, if UK also adds reinforcements they are giving up Karelia.

The problem for the allies is that while they have parity with Japan in IPC, Japan has a +$20 advantage over the US and a +$60 advantage over the UK.

[Mazer Rackham]

Good thread here, gentlemen.  Many solid posts.

I'll add a couple of thoughts.  I have to admit, however, that I don't feel particularly well qualified to talk about this topic because I am almost exclussively a FTF player.  FTF games are functionally time-limited, and you don't get many games where capitals fall and the game continues for many more rounds.  Usually, good sportsmanship dictactes that after 4-6 hours you make your best guess on the winner and everyone heads to Chipotle's   Online you don't have the same rules-based or pragmatically-based limits.

On the rare occassions I have worried about countering Allied advantage, my response has been to go with a strong economic Japan game.  R1 I'll build Japan up to 4 transports, and then send them away on cash grabs.  ICs go up on the mainland, but they build only inf until A) you have 4 of them and B) you can build 6inf on the 2 forward ICs (IND/MAN) and 6tnk on the interior ICs (FRI/KWA).

The econ transport progression is this: R2 2tra to HAW.  This nets +1 IPC and forces some consideration to defending LA.  That slows the US a small amount.  2tra more go to Frindo.  R3 the HAW 2tra take AUS and NwZ.  The Frindo 2tra hit some combination of Africa, often MAD and then wherever the Allies aren't.  R4 you keep living the life of a pirate.  The African tra either scoop more land or come back to Frindo to help with a shuck.  The AUS/NwZ tra move east, looking for BRA/Africa on the following round.  Notice that you've set up the Z42 sucker punch which can win some games for you (see CSub paper for that move).

On the mainland, you'll have avoided a "tank bubble" and instead you'll have solid columns of inf marching up with no land-swapping at all.  The buildup is slower, but what Japan takes, Japan keeps.  When the end comes for Russia, the flowing power base is significant.

Now in a 5 or 6 rd game, that strat is not going to pay divedends quickly enough.  That's what I was developing in a longer format, however, and it is the next strategy I would attempt to refine for the longer games.

Have at it!

[Bean]

I like the progression Mazer. It's also used by one of the best players on this site, U-505.

Couple things though - do you do Pearl Light, or Pearl Heavy? And what do you do if the solomon sub was killed by the UK sub and the UK sub survived? It's not so easy just to plop some transports in SZ60 in that case, so island hopping could be a little bit slower.

Usually if I see the UK sub in Solomons, I will still do Pearl Heavy to conserve fighters, but I will build 3 transports in SZ61 and take SFE with the initial transport. SFE's seazone is out of reach for solomons and you can still go to hawaii on J2.

One thing I also realized is that the units you send island hopping could conceivably be what you need to push faster in Asia, and there are IPCs in Asia, as well. I sometimes don't like hopping with more than 1 transport, because it doesn't appear to pay to me anyways. I'll let the one transport slowly take islands, because I feel throwing another 14-16 IPCs (filled tran) just doesn't pay for the one turn earlier you get the islands.

Sometimes also I like reverse islanding; taking Madagascar/Australia on J3, then Zealand on 4, then Hawaii on 5. This allows you to set up strongly in Indo on J2 (land 3-4 tp there with the aa gun for the complex), gets your bbs together for both shots when island hopping, and after you're done with hawaii then you can annoy Alaska with 4 inf + bb shots + 2 fighters. Going to Brazil sometimes is too difficult because of a mediterranean US shuck.

[Mazer Rackham]

I like the progression Mazer. It's also used by one of the best players on this site, U-505.

It's good to be in good company 

Couple things though - do you do Pearl Light, or Pearl Heavy?

It depends on the bid situation in Asia.  If I need extra gear on the land, I may not go to PH at all.  7 times out of 10, however, I go heavy.

And what do you do if the solomon sub was killed by the UK sub and the UK sub survived? It's not so easy just to plop some transports in SZ60 in that case, so island hopping could be a little bit slower.

That's a case to either 1) skip PH or 2) bring ftrs in from the EIN fleet.  A bit risky, but the risk hedge is just to build the transports in Z61 instead of Z60.

One thing I also realized is that the units you send island hopping could conceivably be what you need to push faster in Asia, and there are IPCs in Asia, as well.

No doubt, no doubt.  That is the trade off: slower Japan in R1-R3, but stronger and bigger when they do come.

Going to Brazil sometimes is too difficult because of a mediterranean US shuck.

Yeah, it's pretty rare that popping BRA is a good option.  Those units almost always end up going to Africa.

Peace

[Magister]

Mazer: I like your progression ! Do you push primarily against Persia/Caucasus or Novosibirsk ? I mean, if Russia has a serious counterattack force so that Japan can only have one route in force. Having a slow mid-sized force down other routes is a great waste... cannot advance without being killed/badly strafed, but cannot help other routes.

I did similarly, but usually ending with 3 factories and 5 transports (of which 2 run around islands etc. and 3 shuttle methodically from Japan). First round of purchases from factories - inf, then add enough arty, at times 1-2 rounds of tank-only make a great 'cumulative charge' effect at distances of 3-4 areas from factories. That means, 2 rounds of production arrive in 1 turn.

[Bean]

No doubt, no doubt.  That is the trade off: slower Japan in R1-R3, but stronger and bigger when they do come.

I still don't believe the correct answer is to send 2 tran to go island hopping - unless Australia has been reinforced to 4 inf. Sending that extra tran gets you the island one turn earlier, which doesn't pay for itself. Doesn't make sense to me, I could be using that money to shuck to Asia.

I also believe that you can island hop later and the difference isn't large, if there even is one. By concentrating on a shuck to Asia, you can be heavily either in Novo/Evenki/Kaz by J4 or trading there, getting the Russians off of Germany's back. You make up for the island IPCs by taking Novo/Kaz/Evenki a turn earlier, and I feel this can be the right answer considering Russia is the target.

And my goodness Mazer, 4 complexes with Japan? And 6 transports? That's an awful lot of infrastructure; you could be significantly behind in actually pressuring Russia except for tons of infantry. You are playing the long game obviously, but if you don't pressure Russia in a realistic time frame (by having a huge infrastructure and by island hopping with 2 tran instead of one) then Germany is gone before you know it.

[DarthMaximus]

I'll usually go to Aus in Rd 3 with the inf from the East Indies.

Assume UK attack the trn in the Kwa sz
I'll buy 3 trns on J1 and 2 inf or 1 arm.
So on J1 I'll pull the wake or oki inf and 1 unit from Japan.

On J2 I buy another trn and the rest ground troops.  Here I believe you still have 5 trns worth of units and I make sure I end up with 1-2 trns in the Fic Sz.

On J3 I'll probably buy my IC, but you can send one of the Fic trns with the EI inf to Aus with a BB shot and 2 ftrs.

If things are going well enough in Asia then you can pull 2 more inf from Fic and go to Aus as well with the intention in Rd 4 to take both Mad and Nz, etc...

I've found it pretty helpful to take the islands as soon as you can b/c once you have them you are really free to do whatever you want from then on with your ships/trns like go to Afr, Ala, or the South Atlantic depending on the game situation, but the longer you put it off the harder and harder it gets to find the "right" time to go after them.

[Mazer Rackham]

Do you push primarily against Persia/Caucasus or Novosibirsk?

Well, you need to send enough inf north to take and hold Russian dollars, so you will have some forces split up.  That is not as ineffective as it sounds, however, because you're sending cheap stacks of inf that can't be profitably strafed.  If you have a stream of inf coming, there is very little advantage for Russia to fight back; the concentration is too small for a profitable strafe and there is no "bubble" to burst to get relief from tanks.

Functionally, however, you're going to end up popping CAU first due to your navy.  After the initial cash grab, your transports will likely bring extra inf forward to Persia, and Russia will have to choose between RUS and CAU.

I still don't believe the correct answer is to send 2 tran to go island hopping - unless Australia has been reinforced to 4 inf. Sending that extra tran gets you the island one turn earlier, which doesn't pay for itself. Doesn't make sense to me, I could be using that money to shuck to Asia.

For me this strategy started as a way to sack the UK paycheck immediately.  The UK has several key income points.  The first is $32, which allows maximum land power with an 8 unit cap (4inf 4tnk).  Every dollar you knock them below $32 turns 1tnk into 1art.  The second critical threshold is $28 (4inf 4art).  Every dollar below that pulls off 3punch from the offense.  So the plan of sending transports to AUS/NwZ/Africa was about hurting the UK as quickly as possible.  

The second thing the 2tra to HAW accomplishes is to slow down the US on R2.  The US has to have a plan for LA, and while it won't require massive readjustments, you are taking a few units of pressure off of Germany.

My experience with pushing hard on Russia is that you can't pull them off of Germany even with the extra transport of gear, so I am content to do the slower but stronger build up.

And my goodness Mazer, 4 complexes with Japan? And 6 transports?

Not quite    I said I build Japan "up to 4 transports" so I buy 3 or 2 depending on the battles of R1 (almost always 3tra 1tnk).  The 4IC require $48 to fill, which is not an unrealistic target.

Nonetheless, that is still a LOT of infrastructure.  But can you hurt the paycheck of the Allies without it?  Soon enough?

Peace

[Mazer Rackham]

Good post, Darth.

It also reminded me of a quick, counter-intuitive point: Most of the time people grab the inf off of WAK for an R1 shuck to BUR.  The inf on OKI is left behind because OKI is worth money, while WAK is not.  But if you're going to HAW R2, then WAK is on the way so it is easy to pick up in your progression.

Minor point, but worth noting.

Peace

[DarthMaximus]

Good post, Darth.

It also reminded me of a quick, counter-intuitive point: Most of the time people grab the inf off of WAK for an R1 shuck to BUR.  The inf on OKI is left behind because OKI is worth money, while WAK is not.  But if you're going to HAW R2, then WAK is on the way so it is easy to pick up in your progression.

Minor point, but worth noting.

Peace

Very true and definitely worth noting.  When at all possible pull the Oki inf first, for exactly the reason you mentioned.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

Honestly, if I go to Hawaii, which I have been lately, it's been Australia to New Zealand to Hawaii.  Then I can hit W. USA if it's available, or land in Buryatia next round.

Wake is normally picked up on Round 2 then, at the same time as Okinawa.

[Bean]

My experience with pushing hard on Russia is that you can't pull them off of Germany even with the extra transport of gear, so I am content to do the slower but stronger build up.

How about with 2 extra tran of gear? The thresh-hold is very quickly reached where you are able to take Novo/Kaz, and 4 units can tip it in that direction. The instant you reach kaz/novo Russia can no longer ignore you, and 4 units can easily make a turn or two of difference which gets you those IPCs.

[Magister]

When Japan reaches Novo in enough strength to hold: buy factory and turn 2 arty right on Moscow's doorstep ! Much more effective than 3 tanks in factories 2 turns away...

[Crazy Ivan]

 
 Japan certainly has to do a lot very quickly to help the cause, ( Axis Parity). That means they have to have enough transports to reach all the critical targets.
 I have had good results with the bid buy going to Japan for the sole purpose of getting an early transport. I use it with the transport in Japan to invade Hawaii on J1!
 Then it's off to Australia and NZ on J2. USA will have to build heavy in L.A. on USA1, (which is good for Germany). I've also gone to Brazil on J3 with one tp and caused the USA to divert it's Africa shuck for a couple of turns. IMHO every little bit helps. I usually build up to 8 transports. It keeps the USA looking over their shoulder, waiting for me to shift gears back over the pond.

[Bean]

Curious Mazer, why only total of 4 transports? Since 2 are pretty much permanently away on pirate business, that means you have 4 spots that you can open up from Japan by purchasing 2 tp. That seems a better deal than buying a complex, which would only open up 3 spots. That's why I assumed you get 6 tps, so you have 4 tps using up the 8 slots on Japan while the other 2 are raiding IPCs.

I think I'd be happy with 6 tps 2 complexes (78 IPCs infrastructure to open up 14 slots, meaning 10 inf 4 arm per round at 50 IPC income) instead of 4 complexes 4 tps (92 IPCs infrastructure open up 16 slots; you could fill that with 15 inf 1 arm at 50 IPC income). In both cases I know 2 of the tps are off raiding, but it seems like too much infrastructure with the 4 complexes and also you're opening up slots you can't even fill with offensive gear anymore.