Ukraine was overpowered, now what Commander? (hypothetical)


  • On Russia 1, they struck W. Russia with 9 inf 1 art 1 arm, and Ukraine with 3 inf 1 art 3 arm 2 fig.

    They wind up with 5 inf 1 art 1 arm in W. Russia, and, unfortunately for you, 1 art 3 arm in Ukraine. To complicate things, they move both of their AA guns - one to W. Russia, and one to Ukraine. Their build was 4 inf 3 art, so now they have 5 inf 1 art in Caucasus and 5 inf 2 art in Moscow at the end of the turn. Both Karelia and Archangel are abandoned.

    Your bid was 1 inf 1 art in Libya.

    What is your response as the German commander? How do we deal with the Ukraine stack? Strafe it? Take it? Use planes, or not? Blitz to Archangel? How many units to leave in each territory?


  • Amphib w/ BB for a free hit, and hit it heavy.  Destroy the Russian ARM, take the AA gun so that Russia has to risk FIGs on their R2 counter.

    Then back up w/ baby stack in Eastern.


  • How heavy is heavy O_O?


  • Honest answer?

    Kitchen Sink (excluding AF).
    2 INF Belo
    2 INF, 1 ARM Balkans
    2 INF, 1 ARM Eastern
    1 INF, 1 ART Southern
    2 ARM Germany

    Ukraine liberated w/ (on average)
    5 INF, 1 ART, 4 ARM, plus the seized AA gun.
    Also send 1 INF Norway to Karelia, TRN 2 INF from Norway to Eastern, build a few ARM in Germany.

    If USSR goes land units only to Ukraine (10 INF, 2 ART, 1 ARM), they CAN liberate Ukraine, on average w/ 1 ART, 1 ARM left, and with West Russia and Caucuses vacant of forces, leaving only the Moscow units and their R2 build for units on the board (and any Siberian forces working their way west).

    If they use their FIGs, they have 1 or 2 INF, 2 ART, 1 ARM, and 1 or 2 FIGs left… they risk AA against both FIGs.

    So…
    USSR has 5 INF, 2 ART in Moscow.  Archangel and West Russia are vacant (AA in WR).  Germany has an INF in Karelia, 1 in Belo.  2-5 INF in Eastern, 2 more units that can be amphibed from Southern, and ARM from Germany.  When Germany counters Ukraine again on G2, the Russians are out of offensive units… 1-2 FIG, and 2 ART (plus any builds).  They are also out 1-6 IPC’s from a free SBR of either Caucuses or Moscow (no AA guns, they are in WR and the Germans took the one in Ukraine)

    You can;t trade that heavy with Germany for ANY length of time.  A single bad set of dice, and Russia is out income, and out an IC in Caucuses.

    Also, if they ARE pulling their Siberian forces west to help out, Japan is doing a steady march through Siberia and China…

    This also leaves the Luftwaffe and Baltic Fleet with nothing to do for a few turns except annoy the piss out of UK and interdicting any attempts by UK to land heavy to help Russia out to the north…

    Oh, and Germany is also parading around Africa after winning in Egypt, unless UK countered in Egypt, in which case Japan is also advancing through India (Japan $40+ IPC’s on J2…)


  • Oops, I left one unit off… the ARM from Southern can also join the party (now the Russian counter of Ukraine, even with FIGs is pretty risky…)

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I like it.  Devilishly wicked. :)


  • I like your answer switch, couple questions:

    1. Would you do this even if the Russians didn’t take Ukraine that hard? It seems like you could; if the Russians take with an average 1-2 tanks then the German Ukraine stack would be that much harder to contain.

    2. As for “no AA guns” I have to point out that the Russians would probably retreat their one in W. Russia on R2, and the UK could have their AA in Caucasus on UK2.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yes, but Russia’s still down an AA Gun and now Germany won’t need to build a 4th, which for some reason, I usually end up buying in my games at some point. (Like Germany 4 or 5 when I’m earning 50+ IPC with Germany a round.)


  • now Germany won’t need to build a 4th, which for some reason, I usually end up buying in my games at some point.

    What the lol! What do you need a 4th for? I usually have to retreat the W. Europe one :/

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    W. Europe, S. Europe, Germany and 1 to follow my army marching on Moscow.

    I don’t “normally” have to abandon W. Europe.


  • W. Europe, S. Europe, Germany and 1 to follow my army marching on Moscow.

    I guess Russia must have enough fighters to scare you when your army is marching? O_o?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’ve had my Russias up to 4 Fighters.  But then there’s American and British fighters and they are usually the more prevalent.  Since both England and America usually lean more on Infantry and Fighter builds instead of armor.  Can help when England and America decide to suicide against you to save Moscow.


  • Yes, with the scenario you post Wes, I would probably make a go for Ukraine Dominance.

    As far as AA guns… I am like Jen in that regard… I tend to litter Europe with AA guns as Germany over the first 5 turns, with Germany usually having 5 guns total.  They come in handy against an Allied FIG build up in Moscow, and also serve to neuter any attempts at a Russian “Yak Attack” (my own name for Russia with way above average numbers of FIGs, which were YAK Fighters in WWII)


  • Yes, with the scenario you post Wes, I would probably make a go for Ukraine Dominance.

    Well Ike I was asking more like, you could probably go Ukraine dominance no matter the result in Ukraine. Just because the Russians had a lot more than usual there after R1 just means that normally a Ukraine stack would be that much harder for the Russians to dislodge. I know your response to the situation I set up, but I was asking one step further would you pretty much do this if Russia had less forces in Ukraine as well?

    As far as AA guns… I am like Jen in that regard… I tend to litter Europe with AA guns as Germany over the first 5 turns, with Germany usually having 5 guns total.  They come in handy against an Allied FIG build up in Moscow, and also serve to neuter any attempts at a Russian “Yak Attack” (my own name for Russia with way above average numbers of FIGs, which were YAK Fighters in WWII)

    LOL O_O! I don’t find I can make any more AA guns work, because it’s not normal for the UK/US to use fighters just to trade territories, they usually only use them for defense and to punch a tough territory; I’d just rather have another inf or arm. I’ll have to try it though to really see.


  • Whether or not I would actually do Ukriane Dominanc ein a game depends on the forces in Russia and the amount of Japan pressure on Russia.

    If Japan is coming hard, then yes I will go for it.  If Moscow is light (usually due to having the Siberian units stay in the east) I may go for it.

    Otherwise, it is a tough forward position to hold, and I am more likely to trade Ukriane while I build up forces, especially INF.


  • So in other words you do not naturally prefer to do Ukraine dom early on, but you think you would have to if Russia got a huge lead there in R1 and when Japan is coming in hard?


  • Yep.

    If Japan is coming hard, then I am going to give Russia too many targets to dominate and trade…

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    This is the problem when discussing strategy in this game.  It is very hard to do so with confidence except in regards to Russia 1.  (Getting progressively harder with each subsequent country turn and game turn.)


  • This is the problem when discussing strategy in this game.  It is very hard to do so with confidence except in regards to Russia 1.  (Getting progressively harder with each subsequent country turn and game turn.)

    But apparently you’re confident enough to say that blitzing Archangel will give you the long term advantage over blitzing simply Karelia!  8-)

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Cause that’s Germany 1.  It’s not 100% like talking about Russia 1, but it’s pretty gosh darn close!

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