First are you using the Russian Revolution rules (the latest on pg#14 of the FAQ thread ,not OOB), or have you just set those aside (for now).

We have played 3 games so far with 3 to 4 players (no solo games), and all w/Russian Rev (so I can only tell a story based on that). In all 3 games the CP have went hard at the Russians (and it was obvious), both CPs (G & A) had 35 units or so heading that way, and even the Turks have got 20 units on Russian soil depending on what the UK does. The CP have dug in on French/Italian soil in the first turn on the western front (they have challenged Italy somewhat, but weren't successful). They are generally forced back on the western front at some point early on though, and start giving up land.

I ask about Russian strats because some ppl are saying the Russians might be too weak, but we are finding the Russians to be a very strong adversary when the CP come full strength, as long as they don't get much of their Russian army killed off in Poland/Romania.  

Are your Russians stacking/def Poland and/or Romania R1 (and how did that go), or are they pulling back to conserve their resources (only activating Romania if the Austrians didn't hit it). In all 3 games we played the Russians backed off, and have stacked the Ukraine (sometimes supporting stack on Belarus). They can get about 40 units to the Ukraine on their first turn, then continue to add to it. At some point they need to decide to take the hit on Ukraine, or withdraw to Moscow. In our games they have been withdrawing to Moscow, and kinda force the Austrians to melt their army into the Russian wall.

Game #1 (remember this was like a practice game):
The Russians withdrew, and had over 60 (plus 3 ftrs for 64 I think) that fell back to Moscow. The CP stayed side by side to support each other for a counter attack if the Russians attempted to hit one or the other. The Austrians had about 35 units (+2 ftrs for 37) that ended up on the Ukraine. The Germans had somewhere around 30 units (+3 ftrs for 33?) on Belarus, and some scattered units on Livonia/Karelia (transported). On turn 4 the CP could have 3-4 territories adjacent to Moscow to force the Revolution, as long as when the Austrians attacked Moscow turn 4 they have at least one unit survive to contest it. By contesting Moscow the Russians wouldn't be able to leave it to attack the adjacent CP controlled territories (although some were very weakly held), thus Russian Revolution happens. The battle for Moscow to force the Revolution (37 Austrians vs 64 Russians) was about 50/50 from what I could tell for an Austrian inf to be left standing when the battle was over (assuming the Russians get air support). It really doesn't matter what the Austrians hit, just how well the Russians roll, and if they could kill all the attacking Austrians in the one round battle. As it turned out the Austrians rolled pretty good (killed over 20 Russians), but all perished so the Russians held on (no Revolution). So now it was the Russians turn and they attacked the main German stack (Belarus), and took back some adjacent territories. The Germans with stood the hit on Belarus (contested), but their army was pretty much decimated. The Germans were able retake enough adjacent Russian territories though, and mount a small attack on Moscow because it was now very weakly defended (main Russian army was in contested Belarus). Now w/Russians in only 2 contested territories (Moscow & Belarus), they couldn't regain control of the other 3 adjacent CP controlled territories (and had no outside help), so the Revolution did happen and I think the Russians sill had like over 25 units on the board when it did on turn 5. It took its toll on the CP though with the Austrian army wiped out, and not much left to the Germans (not that they could get back home quickly now anyway). The CP western front was collapsing, and the French/English/Italians were now on CP soil heading towards the capitals. We stopped the game turn 6 (I think). All CP income was dropping fast, but it would have taken like 5-6 turns to take Berlin (but it would have eventually fell).

Game #2:
This game started out roughly the same way (go for Russia). I think the Austrians hit Romania, brought what they could to the border, and bought a couple frts for air support later. The Russians again backed down R1 and moved everything it could to Ukraine (that's about 40 units BTW ). The Germans took Poland with all available units (14, don't remember if the fighter came in). The Austrians then took a southern swing though, and left the Germans out to dry. I think the plan was to get my main Russian force to Poland (away from my capital), and try to contest Poland w/Germany so that if the Austrians captured the nearly vacated Ukraine, my Russians couldn't hit them from a contested Poland. Well I obliged them whole heartily and crushed the German army in Poland (he roll really bad, and I over achieved), and they weren't able to contest it in a counter attack either (yea, he got diced again, which is rare for him). So I believe the Austrians then went to Sev (I think). Any way I was able to rebuild the Russian home army through builds, and the Austrians would have to get really lucky to make a play for Moscow, and w/o the Germans up there the Revolution was even more of a long shot.

The CP also made a play for the Italians (Rome). Turn 1 Austria hit Venice w/all available units, and Germany did the same attacking Switzerland (w/reinforcements moving to Munich). France pulled everything to Burgundy, and the Italians to Tuscany to hold the line. The Austrians were halted (think they merged w/Germans in Swiss), the Germans also brought up their Munich men to Swiss. The French moved down to Piedmont (also had the Portuguese land there via transport). Now there was a stand off (don't think they realized what the French could bring in to save the Italians). The Austrian/Germans could hit the Italians in Tuscany back to back, but the French would slaughter what was left after the Italian defensive stand. The French/English were also gaining German ground, and with the Russians tossing caution to the wind were now in Prussia (although they were kinda trapped there). This was the makings of a knockwurst sandwich (the Germans were getting knocked around, and the worst was eminent). The CP seeing both their plans shredded, got a little frustrated, and the game was called before the US even got to make an impact. It would have been really hard for the CP to make any head way though, so we all agreed to just start a new game.

Game #3 (2 players vs 2 players):
Very similar to the others as far as start (take out Russia one way or the other). My partner played both the Russians & UK (this was interesting), I was France/Italy/US (with understanding of if Russian fell, I would give him the US). The CP again came full force at Russia, who again backed off merging all units to Ukraine.

The Germans used all ships to take out the UK home fleet (wanted to knock them out in one round to save his own ships, good plan). Both Germany & Austria bought a battleship, and sub(s) in the first couple turns to challenge the allied naval supremacy. This did force the French/UK to spend heavy in navy, and both bought a couple battleships, but eventually the sea's belonged to the allies in the late going. The French built 2 battleships in the Med (gave them 3 down there), so the Austrian fleet never ventured out. Turn 5 the French (w/UK clean-up if needed) hit the Austrian home fleet. The Germans used their fleet to threaten the allies in the North, but mainly used it to transport units into Russia. German navy was sunk (turn 6?) the round after the Austrians as the CP couldn't spend more income on fleet late in the game. Mines really didn't help the CP much, even though the Germans got to roll both mine sz's against the small French lead fleet, and the massive UK fleet.

In this game the Austrians/Germans stayed side by side in their Russian offensive. The Austrians again sacrificed themselves trying to force the Revolution turn 4 by contesting Moscow (locking the Russians in their capital), but the Russians killed them off with only one hit to spare (Russia was free to kill again). The UK also had units in Russia (UK player spent entire paycheck in India twice, in between navy builds for England). It looked like the Germans were going to be able to force a turn5 Revolution, but missed blocking out the UK home fleet (they would have had to sacrificed the entire German navy, so the French  northern fleet couldn't clear the way for the Brits). The UK Liberated Karelia by sea to again foil to Revolution attempt (2nd time). At this point the UK had about 20 units in Russia coming up through India, and 8-10 more by sea from Karelia. By ignoring the Turks though, the UK was now fighting them in Russia, and lost all units from India to them. The CP was able to mount yet another attempt on a Revolution but the the Russians out rolled them by a couple hits again (3rd time, Russian player just flat out rolled awesome in all 3 of these major battles). The Revolution attempts got the CP in trouble, but I'm not sure if the CP would have ever been able to capture Moscow if the Russian/UK didn't have to keep worrying about the Revolution and spreading themselves thin. It did some strange things over there though, like at one point the Russians left Moscow w/only a handful of units, and the CP didn't take it (they only contested it). The Russians had plenty of units though to keep it, but they would have got locked in and game over for them, so they placed them to where they could retake Moscow, and the UK backed them up.

Around the 7th turn the Western allies finally made a move on the Austrians. The French, UK (about 10 units), Italy, and the US all gathered in Trieste to quadruple hit the Austrian capital if needed. As it turned out the French sucked in rolling (lost dogfight although I out numbered him), the UK got 7 hits out of 10 dice, and the Italians smoked the rest leaving a a good sized multi-national force in Vienna (poor US never got to fire a shot). The CP surrendered, muttering something about those damned Russians.

Now if the Austrians were able to survive the Russian wall, or the Russians put up a fight in Poland/Romania and lose a lot of units then this is a different game. Next time we will probably play w/o Russian Rev Rules, or maybe do something different like go for Paris?

Tanks could be pretty useful if you are taking out neutrals, but again this is late in games, and remember they can't take a hit from first strike art fire.

We don't use to board counters when we play either, we just do the math at the end of each turn on a piece of paper. I know we would miss moving the counter at some point (have to do it for most battles), and would be adding things up at the end of each turn anyway. In this game there is only territories, and IPCs saved (haven't seen sub warfare in 3 games BTW) so we just tally it up at the end of each players turn. If we did use a counter I think we would go with the G40 counter because it would only take 1 marker for each power meaning less hassle (things getting moved around).

Two words "Wolf Pack".

2 or more German subs attacking the same sz roll at 3 or less. If they fall below 2 subs (killed or submerged) then they roll normal. I know wolf pack was more know in WW2, but this tactic dates back to WW1 and had good success (all though German communications did hinder it).  

Also allow German subs to roll at 3 or less if they ever manage to raid the US/UK sz'z (2, 7 & 8'). If they get a hit (3 or less) then deduct what is on the dice (not just 1 IPC)

Cool, I'm patiently waiting for the Tigers on TV (open in Minnesota at 4:00).

Nice, are you going, what team (if you don't mind me asking)

Don't worry rj, he's also a moderator on this site. After awhile he may alter your post too.

"IL Twilight Zone"

Get out while you can

Guys this is a Q & A thread (and we've all miss used it). I think you should make a thread about Russian strats that might include allied intervention. JMO, and I would definitely join in

Nice job Flash trying to get this thread back on track.

Guys, don't get sucked into the "IL Twilight Zone".

Larry has always stated that a round of play (turn) isn't relative to a certain frame of time (months), it is abstract. The first turn/round might be 2 months, and the second 1.5 years. He try's to keep the events in a historical order, but historical correctness will take a back seat to game play. With Italy he said he kinda explored some options, but decided it would just be easier to put them at war from the get go. Other wise it could take a whole page of rules and conditions etc....kinda like the optional Rus Rev rules.

Also note that this would allow the Austrian navy to pass through the (neutral) Italian SZ without rolling for mines or running afoul of the Italian navy.

But would they be allowed to do this, then use that move to launch an AA on Libya? You can hardly say that all movement is simultaneous, when the landing on the beaches of north Africa clearly occurs after Austria has used neutral Italian seaspace.

Before Italy's first turn, flip a coin. Heads, and it declares war on the Central Powers, tails it stays neutral.

If neutral, repeat every round until it goes to war.

Right. Only neutral or at war with central. But use dice 1-3 or 4-6

Flash, the way that DOW works (in G40 anyway) the Austrians couldn't do that. If they wanted to attack Libya they would need to DOW on Italy at the beginning of their turn, this would instantly make the Italian navy hostel, and activate their mines. A Power is never given the option of moving through the navy of the power they attack (even when neutral). Same if the Austrians attack Venice, the DOW would be reciprocated and the Italian navy/waters instantly become hostel.  I would think that the Austrians would be able to freely enter (or move through) Italian waters to launch attacks on the French or English though if Italy was considered neutral until its turn 1st starts.

I think we all know that Italy can't be given the option to join the CP, because it just causes major balance issues (you would need a major offset). You might be able to do it if in the event Italy goes CP, then the Turks join the Allies but that would need to be tested and would be strictly for game play. Both powers were drawn in the war, and both sides courted them that we do know. What happened historically can't be changed, but you could do an alternate universe scenario (that would be cool).

Even having the Italians starting neutral, but they DOW on the CP at the start of their 1st turn could throw balance off, but at this point most are saying that the CP are at a disadvantage so maybe it would bring things back to center? It would allow the CP (Austria) to move its navy, maybe get some units into Africa, the Mid East or join the Turk navy. They could make attacks on the French (equal navy + mines), or the UK Egyptian fleet, but they would be sitting ducks, and it would open their coast up to attacks by the Italians, and the other allies (unless they build a ship(s) as the move out.

Any way I don't think you could roll dice/flip coin to see when Italy comes into the war. If they are delayed too long things get murky and again balance become a problem.  

Nice report, too bad you didn't have another 6-8 hours to finish it LOL.

KimRYoung , bold move w/Austrian fleet, I give you that. The fact you killed the Italians w/o taking a hit was extremely lucky (then to do it again against the Russians, wow). I have to ask though, was the French and UK player asleep after that?  Why didn't the French/UK double hit the mini Austrian fleet while it was in Italian waters? The French have the same fleet in sz15 (BB & cruiser), and the UK could play clean up w/2 cruisers (India cruiser can move 3 spaces) and don't even have to worry about mines in Italian waters.



Also sounds like the Russian player might have been over aggressive early on trying to def Poland, and Romania (as many ppl do). We seem to have better luck with Russia abandoning Poland, and just activating Romania (if Austria didn't attack it). By withdrawing to Ukraine you can mass over 40 units there R1 (it touches nearly everything you have). You will be giving up territory, but you can put up a pretty good defensive stand, and resupply from neighboring Moscow. It might cause a delay for the CP. If your not playing w/Russian Rev rules I don't see how the CP can take down Moscow if you with draw. You can have over 60 units def Moscow, and the CP generally have about 30-35 each (they have to hit the wall independently, and you could have air over one or the other). Even if they get Moscow, the Russians have done there job, and there won't be many CP units heading back.

Our games have also seen very heavy buys going to India, sometimes all UK income (to where we are thinking should that be allowed?). This is in games where the CP are going balls to the wall vs Russia. The UK has been the saving grace for the Russians a couple of times filtering up through Persia. They have also made landings in Karalia (to halt the Revolution in one game).

Any way I do have to question the play of the allies. You got really lucky with the naval battles, but it is really hard for the allies to lose naval dominance in this game. Sounds like it was a lot of fun though.

    
Does Russia Start the Game Too Weak?

Not in our experience, even if Russia is forced into a revolution, she generally takes many CP units down w/her. Do you realize how many units Russia can pull into the Ukraine in the early going? Just about every unit they start with can get there on the first turn, in the the second turn you can get the rest there, plus the units you built in the first turn. I think the key might be to not get caught up trying to stack Romania or Poland in the first turn. These are death traps for Russia as the CP have superior numbers there. She is better off being patient IMO, and conserving her strength, then pick her moments to set up defensive stands so the CP are grinding their armies into the Russian wall. If you consolidate your units and flex your muscle you can delay the CP for a little bit. Then they need to decide if they want to attack into a 50-60 unit Russian wall (wipes out whom ever goes first), or divert more reinforcements  your direction (will help the western front).

As Russia I think your job is to tie up the CP, and grind out as many of their units as possible. If you can delay, or over come the revolution (or the siege/capturing of Moscow) you have done your part. The western front should be collapsing on the CP.

Very quick question.

About to play my first game of 1914 (very excited!!).

Do you need to hold denmark to go through the straight? Or can the UK shamelessly invade berlin directly from London via sea?

Even if it doesn't succeed on turn one, if the UK starts contesting Berlin, can the germans still recruit in there?

Thanks

There is no straight/Denmark rule. There are two German naval bases though that service sz10 (Kiel) and sz11 (Berlin) that are mined. As long as the Germans control or contest these territories the mines assigned to the adjacent sz are active against enemy ships moving in, or passing through. Any time enemy ships (including transports) enter, or even move through a mined sz they would be subject to getting hit by a mine and removed (bb still take 2 hits). If they have 5 ships entering, then you roll one dice for each of them (5 in total per mined sz). You would call out each ship, then roll your mine dice. A roll of 1 is a hit and that ship sunk (removed from play), but battleships still take 2 hits though.


Yes to your second part, you can still mobilizes units in your capital when it is contested.

You can also still mobilize ships from your original naval base(s) if the territory they are assigned to is contested (provided you still have the means to do so), and mines still work even when the territory linked to the naval base sz is contested as well.

Yeah the game we are playing right now (very early) the Austrians are fighting at least two fronts.

The CP plan was to take out Rome first (thinking they are the weakest), but to also threaten Russia. Austria smashed Venice, and the Germans came through the Swiss in pretty much in full force. The Italians used the Libyans to activate the Albanians, and pulled everything else to Tuscany to dig in defensively. This halted the Austrian advance (about even, but Italy is playing def). As this was going on I sent everything the French had to Burgundy F1, and now the French and Portuguese (transported to Med) are holding Piedmont with the biggest force of the 4 powers, and a couple ftrs. If the CP try to breakthrough the Italian line, the French will crush whats left of them and that front will be about done (so not sure, but I think they will probably back peddle, or try to regroup against a determined France).

There are about a doz German units in Belgium facing the same amount of units in Picardy, so that front is also stagnant, and the CP don't have many reinforcements coming.  


The Eastern front is pretty interesting though. The Austrians have over 30 units, the Germans 25, and the Turks even have over 20 units funneling up through the south (UK got stuck in Afghanistan of all places and is now behind in her duties?). Russia didn't fight for Poland, so has about 60 units at its disposal (w/probable air support) to strike or def as she feels fit (all could bulk up on Ukraine?). The Russians could probably take a triple hit, because of the peace mail the CP would have to do, and most of the limited CP air power went towards Italy. Russia becomes a powerhouse in this game, and is very difficult to take down because she normally out numbers the attackers big time in 1 on 1 battles when defending if she is patient. If the CP can't take out Russia, or force a Revolution by say the 5th turn (doubtful) the French and Italians will be stomping their way into either Vienna (closer from Italy/Swiss), maybe Berlin. The Germans are absolutely no threat to Paris at this time, and the UK/US will be coming over in force very soon.

Our group seems to buy quite a few ftrs on both sides (maybe too many?). Your right that the French/English can easily keep pace, and get ahead of your German ftrs on the western front. It's easy for both UK & France to get ftrs to say Belgium or Picardy in one turn if that's where the front line is. It is a game of cat & mouse to see if you can get or keep an advantage, or get a second power in there that also has some air (Austria?). You can always count on your dice to go in 3 ftrs against 4 ftrs (2's can really go either way in a dog fight, and I've seen the underdog win). Some times you have to bite the bullet w/one power to gain advantage with a second power (risky). You can lead w/Austria and 2 frts to try and knock 1-2 allied ftrs out, so you can dominate w/Germany. Austria wouldn't even need many units at the front, just some inf because you're really only counting on them for the dog fight (just a suggestion, that I'm thinking about using the next time). The turn order would allow for the CP to go back to back in the west (only Russia goes between them). Of course it's also good if you can get a good size Austrian force to slam into their wall, but I know that Austria faces a 3 way front so IDK.

In the few games we have played the CP seem to be at a disadvantage in just about any direction they choose to attack in as time goes by. On the western front the closer they get, the more multi-def units you face (western allies are very close together, and the navy dominance is something else). The CP power that starts the 1-2 punch is probably going to be sacrificed (so you better do some damage). I think you need to pull out all the tricks in your bag, because the CP window seems to close pretty fast in our short experience. WE have yet to see the CP able to go toe to toe and have much success the further they get away from home though.

It is strange because it's generally the allies that have a longer learning curve, but this is a completely different game system and the CP needs to figure out ways to manipulate it. Don't feel like you're alone, because our group is scratching our heads too.