People with superiority complexes are fun to trash talk with, don't take switch for granted =P

Which by the way, leads me to the following:

First surrender offer on the table, Ike!

Seriously, there are times when England just cannot afford to go to Africa on round 1, in which case, America gets those two areas.  Either way, Germany has to lose them as fast as possible, IMHO.

Well yes I agree, but why not go in round 2?  When the Germans build a navy I usually have to build in SZ2 on Uk1, then go to Algeria on round 2, thats when I grab them, not immediately.

Meanwhile, the point I was making about it being in jeapordy was that England's probably trading E. Europe, Belorussia and W. Russia when you build it.  Otherwise it might be in jeapordy.  In other words, England's probably got a very large stack in Karelia and you only need the IC in Norway because England cannot spend all it's money on land units, it just has too much!

That seems infrequent, and also I was talking about the Americans building an IC there, because they usually have the cash available and it's more efficient than building tran for that case.

I see. Well, usually I find that the Japanese need their fighters to make the threat on Moscow real. If I thought I could afford the Japanese fighters that far off to the German capital, that would probably mean I think I've already won the game. 

Thing is once you send the Japanese fighters there, that's all they're going to be good for, defense. Can't reach Moscow for an attack, and you can't really release them from there or Germany will collapse immediately : (

you've had time to play 3 games in 7 years with me

Dang you guys go back a long way... O_O Since classic I imagine?

Erm just curious, who wound up "winning"? It sounds like you both quit, but I'm not sure...did someone give in to someone else or just a mutual quit or what? lol 

The risk is it falling to the Germans.

I would consider that risk insignificant if you build the complex when it's safe to do so.

And I don't always let the Brits have Algeria/Libya.  It kind of depends on what the board looks like on UK 1.

That would seem to conflict with your theory of allowing the UK to gather as much IPC as it can. In what situations do you believe that the UK shouldn't gather every IPC it can?

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Even if you want to go offensive in E. Europe, you don't NEED SZ 5 or to sink the SZ 5 fleet.  Just invade from Karelia.

Who said you need SZ5? Another strawman you created.


You did.  That's why you said to build two carriers.  Are you so daft you are forgetting your own arguments?  No wonder you think I am inventing strawmen!  You don't even have your own argument straight anymore!  grin

You're not making any sense. I said to build 2 carriers to protect SZ5 as the Germans. I didn't say the Allies needed SZ5 to win.

And seriously, you need to stop it with the personal insults, the "are you so daft" statements. It's immature.

The reason I say you make strawmen is a subjective opinion - I think I understand now it's just part of your style to ask non sequitur questions or statements which are hyperbole. When I originally said having the threat of 12 units land in Germany/W. Europe etc, you immediately responded with "so you're saying 8 units isn't a threat?" It's just your way of exaggerating, I'll deal.

Even if you want to go offensive in E. Europe, you don't NEED SZ 5 or to sink the SZ 5 fleet.  Just invade from Karelia.

Who said you need SZ5? Another strawman you created.

Of course you can invade from Karelia, but you'll be 2 turns low on units (one turn is the units that can't come straight from London, the other turn is the units just placed in Archangel/Norway last turn which can't make it to E. Europe either). Being 2 turns low on units for both UK and US in E. Europe gives Germany breathing time.

12 is useless.  You cannot build 12 in England a round, so why build transports to move phantom units?

There are units in Norway/Karelia. The point is you can offload 12 units into W. Europe or the capital (8 from the capital, 4 from a European territory). There are no phantom units, there are real units. That is why, as I said before, it forces Germany to throw more units into multiple territories. Can Germany afford to throw an additional 3 inf into 3-4 territories for defense and still throw out 3-4 infantry per 3 territories on the Russian front?

Germany can no longer simply build 10 inf in Germany and call it a day, they have to overstack it much earlier. The US adds additional threat, but it takes round 5 or so before it has a credible 8 units to throw around (not like 8 inf or something).

I send America to Africa early to clear it, saves the Brits income.

Well I hope you let the Brits pick up the 2 IPCs in Algeria/Libya, I try to anyways.

Even so, unless the allies are trading E. Europe/Belorussia/W. Russia (hopefully E. Europe and Belo to England) I don't know why you'd risk an IC in Norway.

What's the risk of a US IC in Norway?

Well even if it was poorly defended you would pretty much need to have 4 fighters with your Japanese fleet to get something done, which is a pretty big waste of resources IMO sailing so far off when your fighters could be used to threaten Moscow, trade Africa, or defend territories.

Bean, I think you're making too much of this two-turn delay thing.  If Germany buys two carriers, I frankly don't care that it takes an extra turn or two to get there, because when I get there, Germany will be VERY THIN on defense.  32 IPCs on carriers = 9 infantry and an armor, almost a full turn of builds for Germany.  That lack of troops has the secondary effect of preventing Germany from trading Karelia-Belo-Ukraine with Russia, and thus costs Germany even more income and, hence, troops.  Unless Germany gets lucky in Africa, Germany will be sucking wind by turn 3 at the latest, and RUSSIA will be in Eastern Europe (or trading it with Germany), instead of Germany securely holding Eastern Europe with a massive stack.  If you don't think that creates a deep hole for Germany, then please sign up for the League and play me -- I'll show you.

Hmm no I'm not trying to make too much of it, it's just that the initial responses skipped right over any benefit of having the Baltic navy intact. I had to point out that there is a benefit to it, which was completely ignored and not fairly analyzed vs the costs. I do like your argument now that it has some flesh to it.

But also remember that I'm not going to purchase a second carrier until I feel that the Allies have presented a credible threat to the single carrier. I'm not buying 2 carriers at once, but over a few turns.

As for a League Game, I think I'll be ready to jump back into the pirranha-infested waters after next week, I have a lot of tests coming up and I also want to get some practice in, I'm not exactly flying at full sail after a year's hiatus (was I even flying at full sail back then?  ). You'll be my first opponent though once I'm ready, but don't hold me to using a multiple carrier buy if I don't think it's warranted by that time =P

Well I can't say I would have a whole lot of fun with the Japanese fleet threatening the shuck fleet going from E. Canada to London. It's probably suicide to try to go after the advance fleet which has all the US and Uk combo in there, but the support fleet is not that well defended usually.

It is a matter of when the Allies switch from "defense" (landing in Archangel) to "offense" (landing in Eastern).

So long as the Allies are playing defensive, the Axis has a chance.  But once the Allies establish offense securely, it is over for the Axis.

I'm gonna go slightly off topic here, that's a good point Switch. Now, do you think there is a "turning point" for the Axis to win? I would think that once the Axis are producing more IPCs than the Allies then it's over the Allies, but it seems very difficult to achieve this turning point.

However, have you considered building a British complex there?  If England's earning more then 35 IPC a round, it's a pretty good deal for them, better then America anyway.

I find it takes too long for the British to generate 35+. They're usually in the 28-32 range, even with Norway.