I meant to say T2 of course.
Latest posts made by Quijote
-
RE: Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?
-
RE: Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?
Possibly, but if you don’t take the Japanese ICs in Manch and FIC with the Russians and/or British in T1, it’ll be a long time before you can seriously threaten them again.
I maintain: If both ICs can be defended throughout T1 (and I admit that’s a big if), they’re great to have against any Allied strategy.
-
RE: Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?
If the initial USSR and UK moves I described form part of a KJF, then yes, I accept that 2 ICs is not a good strategy.
In all other scenarios, I think it would work fine.
-
RE: Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?
Now THAT is finally a valid point. I admit that if UK and USSR move agressively on turn 1, the ICs may not be defendable.
Thus, the caveat to this strategy is: It will not be viable unless you can defend both ICs. But since you won’t actually build them until AFTER both the USSR and UK have made their moves, Japan can adjust.
If the UK destroys the Japanese trn in sz 59 and reinforces India, AND USSR stages 6 inf in Bury, and/or moves an arm/ftr into range, then buying 2 ICs is definitely not a good idea.
If, however, only one of the above happens, then you should be able to reinforce the IC that is in danger of being taken, and set yourself up for a succesful Asian campaign from J2 on.
-
RE: Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?
Some pretty wild arguments out there:
-
Someone said you need 12-14 units for a number of turn to make a push on Moscow. Does that mean Japan should capitulate straight away? Assuming a mix of inf and arm, 12 units cost 48 IPCs… which Japan will not have any time soon.
-
Someone said Allies will have the entire initial US and UK fleets, plus 2 turns of US naval builds, at the Solomons by turn 3. There is NO WAY I’m letting both the initial UK and initial US Pearl Harbour fleet survive! Even playing defensively with Japan at sea, and not buying new naval units, one of the two initial fleets can be taken out with minimal losses.
I’ll try to sum up what was said:
I initally said 2 ICs on turn 1 is a good strat against both a KGF and a KJF. From what I heard, I understand that:
-
Against a KGF, having 2 ICs in Asia as early as possible is fabulous. It allows you to pump out 6 arm per turn, plus use your initial trns (plus maybe one new one) to shuttle 4-6 inf/art.
-
Against a KJF, my feeling is that it’s also very promising. It allows you to make a serious stand and at least hold your possessions in Asia. If you are being pressured hard on the mainland, you can use the ICs to produce inf only, which leaves you with at least 15 IPCs per turn to spend on navy. And you don’t need trns to defend Asia, meaning you can use them as cannon fodder, and more importantly, you don;t have to split your navy or move it to awkward places to guard your trns bringing troops to Asia.
All in all, I have still not heard a valid argument against buying 2 ICs on Japan’s turn. :-D
-
-
RE: Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?
What I am trying to say is that even with minimal or no additional Japanese navy builds in the early rounds, it won’t be before turn 4 that the U.S. will have a fleet that is big enough and in a position to really worry Japan.
Think about it: Suppose the U.S. produces all fleet in rounds 1 to 32, and when strong enough moves them towards the Solomons. At the beginning of its turn 4, it will have its initial fleet plus the builds of turns 1 and 2 sitting in sz 46 ready to strike. In the most extreme case, that will be 82 IPCs worth of ships - e.g. 1 BB, 1 AC, 2 ftr, 1 des, 1 sub.
Assuming the initial fleet off Pearl Harbour was destroyed, that is still not enough to dare to venture into Japanese waters, unless they want to risk being wiped out by the Japs at an unfavourable loss rate, and having to waste another couple of turns rebuilding while most of Japan’s capital ships will have survived.
Anyway, this is turning into a discussion of who achieves naval superiority and when. That’s interesting, but to me the key question is: Am I better off spending the 30 IPCs and being able to produce 6 land units in Asia from turn 2 on (meaning I don’t have to rely on transports, and therefore do not have to worry that much about the US fleet), or spending the money on transports instead (which need to be guarded and may be sunk)?
-
RE: Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?
I think it would be very difficult for USSR and UK to effectively pressure Japan if the latter is pumping out 6 tanks per round directly on the continent.
As for the previous points: I guess the viability of this strategy depends primarily on how quickly the US is willing / able to build up a fleet that is large enough so that it can’t be attacked by Japan. My guess is it would take at least 4 turns for such a fleet to be in a position to threaten Japan or the money islands, by which time Japan should be ready for a decisive push towards Moscow (having built 12 arm, 4 art and 2 inf in its Asian ICs, and added at least 6 inf from Japan and the islands).
-
RE: Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?
The principal idea behind building 2 ICs early on is that I would not need to shuck any additional troops to Asia from Japan. With 6 land units (mostly tanks) built in my ICs each turn, the extra IPCs would be spent on planes, subs or destroyers.
-
RE: Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?
Why would you want to retreat to sz 60?
I’d try to deploy the Jap fleet around the Philippines. If the US comes close, at least strafe them to make them lose their trns.
I guess if you want to be able to present a certain threat to them for at least the first 4 rounds, you would have to hit Pearl Harbour hard on turn 1. With smart UK play, this might of course cost you a fighter or two, which you would have to replace… which you could do on turn 2: With 32 IPCs (assuming only China was taken), you can build 4 art 2 inf at your new ICs, and add a fighter.
Has anyone ever actually tried building 2 ICs in Japan’s first turn? I’d be interested to know how it went…
-
RE: Build 2 Japanese ICs round one?
Hmm, I don’t know. My impression is that if Japan keeps its initial navy together (2 BB, 2 AC with ftrs, 1 des…), it really doesn’t need to buy any new ships until round 3 or 4. With the ICs, by then you hopefully have a strong enough presence in Asia to be able to add a couple of subs, a des or replace lost ftrs.
I don’t think the US will be able to assemble a fleet at the Solomons that is sufficiently large to actually have a realistic chance of attacking Japan’s initial fleet until the end of its turn 3 at the earliest. So no need to hurry with naval buys…